Help! I can only do friendships one to one......

[Justiceishalfblind]

I would appreciate a chat about my friendship group issues as they make me sad and I need some Mumsnet tough love

I think I have classic “female” autistic traits. I also was brought up in a dysfunctional family where my mum was ashamed of us not being the fantasy family she had in her head.

I suspect do not conduct myself well in informal groups of women but I long to feel part of one :(

To give some examples:
The best friend I made in antenatal classes set up a book club and told me I wouldn’t be in it “because you’d keep going on about the books”

Another friend gently advised me to “keep it light” on the playground

I remember long ago being told I wouldn’t be invited to a dinner party “because she can dominate”

I’m not level-headed (for a long time I thought I was because I had to keep the peace between my parents and would go “cold” to do it -but that’s not the same thing is it? :( )

I find it hard to let things go/ let the conversation move on.....

Even one to one, I often fail to realise who my real friends are until there is a crisis, clinging to people with higher status (captain of the netball team type people, pretty people - essentially people my mum wanted me to be)

I can be needy with the “higher status” people

This makes me sound awful but on the plus side

• I do have some nice one-to-one friendships (though not exactly sisterly)
• I am an excellent mentor at work and generate long term loyalty amongst those who report to me
• I can get clients to tell me secrets even they didn’t know they had...I really help them

-pre pandemic I would regularly be told by people that a casual conversation with me had greatly helped them with a problem

• under another name I have greatly helped people on Mumsnet. I get private messages asking my opinion. People start threads asking if I am around to advise because they have read something I wrote 10 years ago. That’s a great honour and makes me feel proud.

-I have led community projects, one of which deploys all my empathy with kids who feel like outsiders in a special way. Strangers come up to me to say how much I have helped their child.

Shame holds you back and it has taken a long time to recognise the internalised shame from my upbringing. But I would like to improve. There are somethings that may be hard-wired with the autism (auditory processing issues). But other things I can improve.

I would appreciate some Mumsnet thoughts. Tin hat is on.

Hmmm, sounds like diagnosis is still a developing art.....(to put it mildly)

The older I get, the more I think we are who we are, and trying to be someone else is only worth it if we are causing hurt or genuine offence. If it is just a matter of being liked..? If they only like you when you act like someone else... what is that worth?

Who you really are is working for you in your personal life and at work, and you have friends who may not think you're perfect, but they like you enough (and feel able) to tell you when to cool it, rather than just dropping you. You must be doing something right.

By all means experiment with taking a back seat in conversations etc, but also make a note of how rewarding those interactions really are to you, if you have to stifle your personality.

Interesting about the rules vs rhythm

I would liken it to learning to dance. I’m not a natural, so I have to go slowly and learn each step. Then once I have the basics I can feel my way without thinking. For some people it just comes naturally though, and they can miss the first step out.

I also agree with the pp about being true to yourself. I was sad at first but now I prefer not being part of a group, they can be cliquey and exclusive. I see you also have a heart for those on the outside. The things that make us different can also be our strengths.

No book I can recommend sorry. I taught myself in women’s fellowship groups at church, sitting silently and observing closely (rather than focussing on God!!). I also found they were less exclusive and invited me along even though I was different.

Mum groups I’ve found less easy. I wonder if they had less energy for those who are different. Maybe you could find a friendship group based on something you are passionate about?

The rhythm vs rules analogy is interesting. Lots of us autistic people find that communication with other autistic people often flows just as natural as neurotypical communication. Instead of 'following the rules' (ie constantly holding yourself back from interrupting, changing topics or dominating, or the reverse of being quiet much of the time), it feels like a dance of bouncing of each other and lighting brain sparks in each other. After venting my frustration to someone from the National Autistic Society about stilted conversations with professionals, she described it as communicating at different frequencies.

‘communicating at different frequencies” is good.

I can see how the church groups would work. Church is like family: when you show up, they have to let you in :)

....Thinking about it sometimes after nights out a person has said to me something like “you didn’t seem yourself last night”.

And sometimes I’ve been on a night out and I really really tried not to say anything that’s of Beate but still the next day somebody said to me “oh and that’s another funny thing you said last night”.....

:(

...off beat....

The best way to ensure that people think you're weird is to believe that you are weird.

But everybody is weird. Some people own their personalities. Some people faff about worrying how they can change themselves so that they fit in better here, or fit in better there, or so that people think better of them, or so that they can do things in a more appropriate way, or so that... ad nauseum.

You are who you are. Be you, and spend time with people who appreciate you. You'll save yourself a whole bunch of angst.

You are who you are. Be you, and spend time with people who appreciate you. You'll save yourself a whole bunch of angst.

I tend to agree. And this way when someone brings up something weird you said on a night out, you can think "Oh well, at least I had a fantastic time" rather than "I bit my tongue all night and it still wasn't good enough - so what was the point?"

OP, your struggles resonate so much with mine. And, like you, my Mum wanted a fantasy family, and berated me and my siblings for who we actually were. The strangest thing is that until me and my siblings were much, much older and compared notes, each of us identified individually as being the black sheep of the family.

As to the possibility of ASD - I have also considered this for myself, but can't see how a diagnosis would help, even if it 'came back positive'. Because we are all complex individuals, introverted/extroverted, made up of genes, familial/social conditioning, along with the random experiences and luck that happen to us along the way. Because, for me, my overriding condition is Shame and not ASD, as I suspect it is yours. I suspect that ASD rather than Shame is the norm for those diagnosed. I have heard that a diagnosis of ASD can be a liberating experience. Do you think it would be for you?

I think instead I may have a mild processing difficulty and also mild dyspraxia, which can affect conversation, especially the 'ping-pong' needed when multiple people are involved. At times it feels more than mild, but if it were measured and plotted on the statistical bell-shaped curve it would probably only come out as low average. But it is enough to find talking difficult in certain situations, especially where there might be other things going on as well. Do you think that might be the case for you?

I think other posters have given some really good feedback. I wish on you self-compassion, self-acceptance and the recognition that when other people react to you in a certain way it is because of them, not because of you.

I realise that the bit about Shame might be a projection on my part. If you feel a diagnosis of ASD would help, then I would look into it.

I'm sorry I haven't read the full thread, but I'm autistic too and what really helped me was training in active listening. I did it for work and it's really helped me rein in the tendency to keep in with solutions and ideas.

I still hate small talk though, but I have a few topics I can do it on and just bring those up - weather, lockdown, children being a handful, that kind of thing. Otherwise I just ask them questions about what they are talking about, people love talking about themselves.

"I bit my tongue all night and it still wasn't good enough - so what was the point?"

I have literally said that to myself and to close friends/DH!

Gosh Movement - you've hit home with that post, all of it.
I've started a separate thread about mum's fantasy family and it's kind of amazing the re sponses that are coming in - I couldn't sleep last night because of them and I've had some private messages today on the "I've never heard this said aloud but this is my life" type. So check it out if it might be interesting for you.

But YES mild processing difficulty and hence genuinely not knowing where the "ping pong" has got to! And my younger son has this to boot. He can stand with a group planning a football kickaround but finish the conversation unsure where and when he is supposed to be. For my part I have to record all my calls at work as otherwise I look at my notes and they tend to consist of stuff like my own name......

I should have mentioned the auditory processing stuff in the OP I think it is a big factor in making one-to-one so much easier.

Zurula if you have any links that would be interesting to follow up on. thank you.

I am mildly autistic (undiagnosed) but the way I look at it is that it wont change who I am to investigate the matter. I have done research and questionnaires online. The advice giving I can relate to. It is just my way of trying to help. I can see how it may seem dominating so can work on that. When people talk about problems if they are just looking to offload occasionally that is one thing but often it feels draining when it goes on for too long. It is then I struggle. I find many people can wear me out quite easily alongside bringing up my ds who is a moody teenager so that does not help matters and I would say that as a sympathetic listener but my tolerance threshold is limited at the moment... I need quiet and space more this stage of my life and dont see it changing in a hurry. If it means I have scarcely any friends for a while then will just have to ride it out somehow.