Doctors just talk shit about women’s health don’t they

[Lampenme]

95% of diagnosis’s = stress/hormones.

I’ve had 28 day cycles since I was 14 years old. This month I’ve started a new period 13 days after the last one. Heavy, painful, dizzy, nauseous. The best the doctor can do is a head tilt and “are you stressed?” WE’RE ALL FUCKING STRESSED.

Amazing how 20 years of ups and downs have never affected my cycle. What scientific basis do they have to base stress as a cause of your whole hormonal cycle turning upside down? It’s just bullshit isn’t it

@dubyalass, it is not unfair to expect GPs to be familiar with the sort of problems half their expected patient panel might suffer from at different life stages.

No it isn't, but that's not what I said. The post I responded to said that GPs should be up to date with everything new in medicine. Which is impossible.
It would be better if practices hired GPs with a range of specialisms, for example women's health, cancer, immunodeficiency etc. But even within cancer there is a huge range of symptoms that could equally be something else.
As ever, the issue is a chronically underfunded health service that tries to be all things but can't cope. There aren't enough GP surgeries, there aren't enough GPs.

My older male GP pushed for testing to get me both a PCOS and endo diagnosis. I appreciate I am probably very lucky but there are some amazing GPs out there.

50% of the population are female.

50%!!!

Medical misogyny is a massive issue right from training and how the textbooks and courses are written. It's particularly obvious in gynae.

Push on for more investigation, go to a different dr if necessary.

Good luck, it is far from easy!

@Shinyletsbebadguys I too have found having telephone consults has MASSIVELY improved matters! In my case it means not every damn symptom is blamed on my being overweight!

@Quorafun There absolutely needs to be a complete overhaul in medical and biological education.

The Male and female bodies don't only differ in terms of reproductive systems and sex hormones but in thousands of other ways.

I'm 48 I've had many gps Male and female, old and young etc as a result of moving around a LOT (army dad army ex) I've very very rarely come across the few that:

Actually bloody listen!

Don't blame everything on my weight (in my younger years I was naturally underweight and that was overly focused on too.)

Actually read the relevant medical history or allow me to explain it

Acknowledge that they are NOT experts in every field! They may be if they've spent time specialising in a particular field (eg I had one that quickly dx and effectively treated my rosacea, who'd worked in dermatology for several years)

Except they are general practitioners, not consultants with a specialism

Patients generally know that it's the gps that appear not to! I've even had gps trying to go AGAINST specialists dx and treatment for both dd and I (dd has a disability that was ignored for years despite classic symptoms)

There's a lazy arrogance present in far too many gps.

Many female gps can be very presumptuous if they have only experience normal periods themselves that those of us with gynae issues are "exaggerating" I have severe endo which has very likely been the major contributory cause of 2 mc, an ovarian torsion, a long history of stomach issues, I have scar tissue on my spine, bowel, stomach and 1 lung that they know of, I've had years where I had periods that were heavy every single day for a fortnight at a time and I'd only get a fortnights break before next one started, I'd flood through max absorbency tampon and pad regularly, was anaemic and in agony. When I had dd I was told after that I'd had strong and what must have been very painful contractions until emcs. Labour was NOTHING compared to periods pain wise. Only thing more painful was the torsion... yet for decades I was viewed and treated as some sort of drama queen "malingerer"!

And if passiveness is a discriminatory factor, this could well turn into a gender issue

It already is, loads of research showing it is, nothing changing!

I have the benefit of being both medically educated (ex nurse) and therefore also able to read and understand the research myself and being assertive a bolshy madam

If that weren't the case I dread to think what would have carried on being missed in Dd and I and even WITH those I still struggled to get referrals, correct dx and treatment. Referrals aren't just gatekept they're disincentivized in several ways.

Women are literally dying of the ignorance & prejudice of hcps as this thread sadly shows.

The specialists I've seen have barely disguised their opinion of gps! The reluctance/barriers to referrals make their jobs harder too

They can’t know everything, but they need to know enough to refer on promptly when required it's honestly not only about lack of medical knowledge it's also due to the bureaucracy and payment systems, put very simply its expensive for them and their business (your gp surgery is not nhs owned but a subcontractor of sorts) to refer patients to specialists PLUS (again mainly cost/Tory ideology driven) they face bureaucratic discipline if they're considered to be doing so "too often"

@RosesAndHellebores I agree it's a totally false economy. At one point I calculated (roughly) how much time I had unnecessarily off work in terms of if I'd been dx and treated I wouldn't have needed that time off (when I was still fit to work I'm disabled now) and it wasn't days or months it was years!

I had an advanced carcinoma and yes I sued the practice

I'm so sorry but also good for you!

@tinselfest I believe it was approx 15-20 years ago gynae stopped being a required area for gp training.

@ScalpHelp I hope you understand and are able now to refuse any such scenario in the future? No patient has to consent to being a teaching case at any point you had the right to have the 2 "learners" removed!

There aren't enough GP surgeries, there aren't enough GPs.

I no longer agree with this! If patients were taken seriously and not fobbed off, were referred when MEDICALLY appropriate with financial and disciplinary reasons not being a factor and were therefore dx accurately and treated correctly then patients wouldn't need to make many multiple appointments sometimes over decades to complain of symptoms and even get remedies JUST for the symptoms eg pain relief then that would free up gp appointments therefore fewer gps needed - I'm actually starting to wonder if the incompetence is at least in part strategic!

I had clear, textbook endo symptoms for 14 years before it was accidentally discovered via the surgery for the 2nd mc by a talented surgeon. That was 14 years of appointments at least once a month often more for:

Painkillers
Migraine relief
Bleeding reduction meds
Hormonal contraceptives px in a vain attempt mostly to abate symptoms

Follow ups following a&e admissions which were the result of fainting from anemia, sudden and very excessive blood loss, injuries incurred by the fainting

Follow ups to other things caused by the condition - mainly 1st mc, ovarian torsion and bowel issues.

That's 168 appointments that could have been avoided if I'd been listened to, dx and treated much earlier

And that's only ONE condition for ONE patient. Multiply that by 3 for 2 other conditions I have with similar history and 2 for dd too, multiply that by even just female Uk patients and we're talking MILLIONS of unnecessary appointments.

I had a parathyroid adenoma removed at the start of last year. They aren’t common but they do most often occur in post-menopausal women (I was 39, just got lucky that the high calcium was picked up on a blood test for something else) and frequently takes years to get the necessary surgery to remove them as the symptoms get written off as menopause, or misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia or ME. If they aren’t removed they’ll eventually result in kidney stones, osteoporosis and a whole range of other nasties, but the approach from GOs and often endocrinologists as well is just to ‘wait and see’. As if even a benign tumour is just going to go away on its own!

I was dismissed by several male gp's at my practice (and, to be fair, one female one.) I was suffering from extreme palpitations, occasional breathlessness and my bp was on the high side. I felt like I was on the verge of dying for several months. I kept being told I was suffering from stress and or panic attacks and it was all in my head. Having sought help from a private cardiologist, (as I kept being told by my gp that there was nothing wrong with me) I am now being treated for very high bp and a heart problem, which means I will eventually need a pacemaker. At every stage my problems were just dismissed as emotional and I was just told to relax and take things easy. I no longer trust the NHS at all.

Mine was fairly mild compared to some in here but I went to my GP with breathlessness, palpitations and occasional fainting. Had blood tests which apparently were normal and the GP told me I was unfit and needed to do more exercise. Turns out my ferritin was 1 and I was borderline anaemic. When the iron tablets prescribed made me constantly sick I was told “tough you’ll just have to get on with it”. That was two years ago and I haven’t been back since.

@Sunbird24

I had a parathyroid adenoma removed at the start of last year. They aren’t common but they do most often occur in post-menopausal women (I was 39, just got lucky that the high calcium was picked up on a blood test for something else) and frequently takes years to get the necessary surgery to remove them as the symptoms get written off as menopause, or misdiagnosed as fibromyalgia or ME. If they aren’t removed they’ll eventually result in kidney stones, osteoporosis and a whole range of other nasties, but the approach from GOs and often endocrinologists as well is just to ‘wait and see’. As if even a benign tumour is just going to go away on its own!

Yes! I had one too. Years of going to the gp with indigestion, headaches, joint issues, kidney infections not to mention 13 fractures. Eventually got picked up by an orthopaedic specialist and referred to an endocrinologist. It took me three more years to get surgery (it’s usually a very simple operation) - we’ll just wait and see, shall we? Eventually I had the surgery done privately because I was lucky enough to have BUPA cover through work. But not before I’d broken my wrist in two places.

And don’t get me started on hypothyroidism.

Agree. Had several chats with a 40something female gp with whom I worked. She bemoaned the face so little time in med school devoted to female issues, and so little continuous professional development training opportunities. Ironically she only found it an issue when it affected her.

Friend of mine was given anti depressants when she had gone to the doctor concerned about having an under active thyroid

It was actually an under active thyroid, she just kept arguing til she got a blood test

Ive been generally very lucky with my long term male dr who retired but i felt ‘knew’ my family and i, and the mainly female doctors ive had since then

But generally i will ask for a female dr

@Reedwarbler

I was dismissed by several male gp's at my practice (and, to be fair, one female one.) I was suffering from extreme palpitations, occasional breathlessness and my bp was on the high side. I felt like I was on the verge of dying for several months. I kept being told I was suffering from stress and or panic attacks and it was all in my head. Having sought help from a private cardiologist, (as I kept being told by my gp that there was nothing wrong with me) I am now being treated for very high bp and a heart problem, which means I will eventually need a pacemaker. At every stage my problems were just dismissed as emotional and I was just told to relax and take things easy. I no longer trust the NHS at all.

Dh has all singing all dancing health insurance

Ive been having chest pains and I’ll be honest I was worried that

A I would just be dismissed
B I wouldn’t get potential treatment for months

Apparently my blood pressure is really high, my blood pressure is checked as part of my under active thyroid but due to covid ive not had my thyroid checked in 18 months

I appreciate that I’m lucky to be able to see a dr privately

@Quorafun

There is a book called invisible women. amongst the problems it noted, was the fact that the human body is defined as a 70kg man, with women not even part of the equation. As this is such an ingrained historical fact, its taught from the very beginning of any biology education down to primary school. Research on drug doses etc is almost always based on men as the default. I was horrified to learn this, and it made me look at my own medical education in a different light. Having said that, the stress axis has a huge effect on reproductive hormonal cycles, and common things are common, so its appropriate to consider stress first. The thing about a 4 legged creature in England being more likely to be a dog, than a zebra, applies. Having said that, the treatment for a prolapsed uterus, if not surgical, is exactly identical in the 21st century AD as it was in the 20th century BC. I can quote the hieroglyphic document if you would like. We just use plastic instead of a pomegranate.

This book is amazing and a true eye-opener. Unfortunately a lot of people I've spoken to about it have rolled their eyes as being 'another' man-bashing feminist tome. It really isn't about that at all, when I've retold some of the stories, people have been amazed.

My cycles regulated thanks to lockdown as I was away from the stresses of my profession. Enough to to be finally fall pregnant. Stress IS a BIG THING and we SHOULD NOT NORMALISE THE STRESSFUL LIFESTYLES that we have lead.

I had investigations, outcome was no medical cause... So it had to have been stress. Not going into work for 3 months changed my world.

Fucking auto correct on phone

I fucking love Invisible Women. Brilliant piece of work. Also helped me explain a lot to my DH who doesn't "get" a lot of things that don't affect him... But when he realised his short height means he's affected by many of the same things that affect women (car safety, unable to reach things in a supermarket, huge mobile phones that don't fit in his hand, you name it), he really paid attention. He has a few non-NT issues, and a book like this helped me no end.

I have migraine, have done since age about 11. I didn't see a neurologist until 2yrs ago and I'm 40. It's taken me many years to learn to be a bit bolshy at the GP and tell them I want certain Dx excluded, specific blood tests, a referral etc. I do all my research before I see them, and bring notes to appointments.

Don't get me wrong - if they are taking me seriously, I'd don't need to push. If I'm fobbed off, that's when I bring the notes out. It tends to focus their mind.

I've had variable experiences, and often avoid female GPs as a result. I had bad time when I fell pregnant at university with a female GP who was really nasty and dismissive about me wanting to seek a termination. As it happened, I miscarried early but I hadn't expected her attitude. The same woman had put my frequent migraines down to my weight (and I was slim back then!) and prescribed inappropriate medication.

That said, I've seen two different GPs at two different practices about depression, and both were brilliant. I was pleasantly surprised, because they really listened, seemed to understand and were very decent about it.

@Apricotta congratulations

That was the end of the conversation. It's like they just see a young woman and assume she's reckless and getting accidentally pregnant. Then when you hit 30 it's "well you're getting older now, this is to be expected." And if you have the audacity to be overweight, clearly any medical problems are weight related. No matter your age or stage of life, there's always an excuse for fobbing you off.

Heavy periods all teh male and female GP I've seen - and we've moved around a bit - not interested just go on Pill and past 30 the coil- when I've had issues there just keep taking it at same time it will settle - 6 months in one case it hadn't.

I have overweight family members - male and female where everything is blamed on weight - last time GP was blaming weight and underlying conditions that family member ended up in hospital they had a raging infection with all classic signs.

I also think they expect you to go back and forth to them rather than listen the first time.

Many family members with long term conditions often complain they seem to know more about their condition than many of the HCP they get sent to.

The one that irritates me is sending DH with the kids - they often get diagnosed or seemingly quicker treatment on few occasions I've sent him with them. It does make you wonder if theres some unconcious bias going on.

I read it on here, but it is true that gp's describe men as 'suffering' from a condition, and women as 'complaining' of a condition. Why is it a man can go to see his gp complaining of mild chest pains, breathlessness and dizziness and would probably be given an ecg there and then, but a woman suffering the same symptoms is told she is suffering from stress?

I hope all the people who have experienced mis diagnosis or delayed diagnosis which has caused their outcome to be worse or caused them loss will take legal advice and sue. It is the only way doctors and NHS senior management will take notice.

I got pregnant at 18 in the 1980s. I had pre eclampsia which ended up with me in ITU with eclampsia and subsequent raised BP all my life. My kidneys started to fail and I gave birth to a tiny sick baby. She survived.

Four years later I am married to a different man and we plan on having a baby. I did what I thought was good planning, I went to my female GP to talk about having another baby....if it was safe etc. she told me not to be such a fusspot and just get on with it. She was rather rude.

So I got pregnant. BP was raised and protein in urine at booking in clinic. Spent most of my pregnancy in hospital. Nearly lost me and baby.

I pray tomorrow the surgeon will actually listen to me hand not just tick boxes,

My first year at uni, I started having fainting fits. They were quite scary as it happened on the tube, on the street etc. I would feel it coming on, have to sit down before I fell, then would just wake up.
The doctor said emotional stress. That was it. No investigation at all.
I still don’t know what was causing it and it’s only happened once since, in my twenties. I did find out I was severely aneamic though so maybe related.