Can my DD take the children in these circumstances?

[IceCreamSnob]

Sorry this will be long: I desperately need advice

For background - My DD has two small daughters (both under 7) with her ex partner. They split up two years ago, he still see's the children but my DD has custody of them both. She and the kids live with us (myself and DH) at the moment. DD has some learning difficulties related to an accident she suffered as a teenager and struggles to care for her children without heavy support. Because of this myself and my DH do a lot of the childcare for our dgd's.

About a year ago DD told us that she had a met a new boyfriend online. She bought him round to see us soon after and introduced him to the kids. A couple of months later she asked if he could move in because he was being evicted from his accommodation. I said no. DD had a huge strop at me and declared that she would move out then. I said fine. Heard no more about it from her (she quite often says she'll do stuff in the heat of the moment then doesn't bother) until I came back from work on Tuesday. DD was not at home and most of her stuff was gone. I rang her and asked where she was. She said she was with her boyfriend (in his hometown) and they were moving into a flat together that day.

The flat (that she hadn't told us about) is nearly 100 miles away from us and all her close family (it's in the same area that her boyfriend is from) . She's now saying that she and her boyfriend are going to come back and take the children to live with them on Monday.

I have serious concerns that the children won't be looked after.

The few times that DD has had the children alone (without support) have not gone well. She doesn't spot potential hazards (ie: she left on a hot iron unattended in DGD's bedroom and one of the kids caught her arm on it) another time the younger dgd was nearly hit by a car because she didn't hold dgd's hand whilst crossing a main road.

She doesn't plan anything in advance or think ahead. This often means she doesn't have food in the house or she'll forget to collect the kids from school unless we remind her. She has no new school organised for them currently, she says she'll look for one after Christmas...

The few times I have met her boyfriend I have been concerned about his behaviour towards dd. He's very posessive and overbearing. If we went out for a meal for example then he wouldn't let DD go to the loo by herself for example. He would insist on waiting outside the toilet door. He also answers her phone for her and opens her post. He has his own children but he has no contact with them

When they turn up on Monday can I refuse to let the children go with them? I've suggested to DD that she comes back and we discuss it but she's insisting on taking them Monday. I'm very concerned for their welfare

Thanks for reading

[DippidyDoDah]

In your position, I would say to your DD that you've changed your mind and the new boyfriend can come and live with you. At least you can keep and eye on him.

Also instigate Clare's Law.

[Dullardmullard]

They could open an investigation yes but they’ll also be assessing the OP to because you’ll find a lot of phone calls are done by grand parents maliciously.

My question is if the daughter has learning disabilities
How severe is it?
Does she have a SW?
If so why haven’t you contacted them?
Next is
If she has these learning difficulties?
Why do you not have PR or at least some?
Plus
How do you know all this about boyfriend?
Last
Adult children do move out with their children why wasn’t this on your mind?

[Gingerkittykat]

@IceCreamSnob

How did it go with the solicitor?

[Molly333]

How are things todsy?

[IceCreamSnob]

Sorry for not having updated earlier. It's been a very busy week

In short after several phone calls and emails to various people, agencies and the solicitor it was established that there was nothing we could legally do (at the moment) to keep the girls with us. DD and her boyfriend came up on Friday and took them. It was very emotional and handing them over was the single hardest thing I have ever done.

I've managed to convince Dd to ring me everyday (so far she's doing this) and I have my mobile switched on at all hours if she needs me. I was planning to go up for the day (with Dd and her boyfriend's prior agreement) on Christmas eve to see them but we've just gone into tier 4 (bloody covid ) so I can no longer do this. I've spoken to social services in the area they have moved to and they are aware of the situation but there isn't anything they can do for now.

I miss all three of them terribly particularly at this time of year.

[FestiveStuffing]

Sorry to hear this.

[Rachie1973]

On the plus side she’s in regular contact and not adverse to having you visit so that’s really positive.

[August20]

I hope things are well with your grandchildren. That she is in regular contact is good.

I think you just have to try and make sure things don't slip through the cracks e.g. that the children are placed in a new school.

Try and be a supportive mother/grandmother in order to keep the lines of communication open.

I still recommend that if you are concerned about the partner that you consider Clare's Law or Sarah's Law - third parties (e.g. you) can make the request.

Ultimately your daughter is an adult woman and is considered capable of choosing to be in a relationship and capable of raising her own children - at least until proven otherwise.

[IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls]

@August20 you don't know that without a capacity assessment.

Ultimately what needs to happen here is a safeguarding referral and a capacity assessment on mum.

Iv worked with a lot of vulnerable mums like this and our social care would not allow this happen without thorough assessment of the case and some safeguarding procedures in place.

With my work off As grandparents I would absolutely be liaising with school and telling them my concerns.

[Rachie1973]

[quote IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls]@August20 you don't know that without a capacity assessment.

Ultimately what needs to happen here is a safeguarding referral and a capacity assessment on mum.

Iv worked with a lot of vulnerable mums like this and our social care would not allow this happen without thorough assessment of the case and some safeguarding procedures in place.

With my work off As grandparents I would absolutely be liaising with school and telling them my concerns. [/quote]
They won’t go beyond an initial assessment on what we’ve been told so far.

Unless the children become a cause for concern in the future there is nothing.

The line for capacity is not particularly high, chances are the daughter will meet it simply because most people do. Her learning difficulty hasn’t prevented relationships or raised issues with midwives during pregnancy.

The right to a private family life is ingrained in law and they will not place ‘safeguarding procedures’ on a family as a precaution without some serious issues being raised.

[PearlescentIridescent]

@IceCreamSnob I am so sorry this sounds absolutely awful and what a huge upheaval for those little girls :(

I can't offer any legal advice but if if were me I would be consistently raising any concerns you see or hear of to build a picture.

That fucking weird man sounds like he's hugely taking advantage with this woman and I'd be incredibly anxious about his motives. As a previous poster said why would someone NC with their own children get with a woman with dependents?

What a horrible situation. I really hope you can get some support and evidence to show how reliant she is on help from you. Were no concerns ever raised in her pregnancies?

[billybagpuss]

This may well work to your advantage, you said in an earlier thread they haven’t established a school yet. The new term starts very quickly and you said she was going to wait until after Christmas. Ask her about it over Christmas as their existing school will probably still be expecting them back, so you could offer for them to come back for a bit. It also gives her a chance to see if she actually does cope for a week or so. Don’t mention it too soon though.

[pilates]

How awful for you op. Keep up regular contact by phone. I’m sure your DD is going to miss you as much as you miss them. You sound a great mum 💐

[Whenwillow]

Thinking of you and yours @IceCreamSnob It must be very difficult. Best wishes

[CodenameVillanelle]

[quote IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls]@August20 you don't know that without a capacity assessment.

Ultimately what needs to happen here is a safeguarding referral and a capacity assessment on mum.

Iv worked with a lot of vulnerable mums like this and our social care would not allow this happen without thorough assessment of the case and some safeguarding procedures in place.

With my work off As grandparents I would absolutely be liaising with school and telling them my concerns. [/quote]
What do you mean 'would not allow this to happen'? Do you mean they would try to engage mum to work with them voluntarily and if that wasn't successful they would consider a child protection conference, and a child protection plan? Because they don't have any power to 'allow' or not allow a mother to move her children to live and go to school somewhere else.

[Nonamesavail]

I'm glad you are all in contact still. Bloody covid though :(
Could you convince her to bring them back after the holidays to go to school x

[WellThisIsShit]

I’m glad you are in contact too. Keep it civil as much as you can. That’s what will help list in this situation as the law is NOT on your side, and if you upset your daughter too much, you all stand to lose out in the long run.

Such a tricky situation though. And the virus and tier 4 makes it akkbso much harder...

However, the one glimmer of light in this situation is that without your practical support, perhaps your daughter will find it too much work to look after the children? Is there a possibility that if they are difficult to care directly she might give up wanting to do it all by herself?

It’s difficult to guess as it’s really hard to estimate her capabilities & ability for long term commitments on what you’ve said. Part of me wonders whether you are right to be this concerned, however it could also be that she’s ready to stand on her own two feet and has been supported beyond what her basic needs actually are, because it worked so well for everyone across the family.

Oh dear, what a mess

[Dullardmullard]

I’d like the daughters take on this as there is so many unanswered questions.

[PearlescentIridescent]

@Dullardmullard Adult children do move out with their children why wasn’t this on your mind?

Responsible parents do not upend young children from their home, school and support betwork to move into a flat 100 miles away with some guy they have known for a year and have never lived with.

That alone sets off huge red flags even if the DDs abilities to parent was perfectly normal, surely?

[Rachie1973]

[quote PearlescentIridescent]**@Dullardmullard* Adult children do move out with their children why wasn’t this on your mind?*

Responsible parents do not upend young children from their home, school and support betwork to move into a flat 100 miles away with some guy they have known for a year and have never lived with.

That alone sets off huge red flags even if the DDs abilities to parent was perfectly normal, surely?[/quote]
Many people relocate for all sorts of things. Children move schools all the time.

[Dullardmullard]

[quote PearlescentIridescent]**@Dullardmullard* Adult children do move out with their children why wasn’t this on your mind?*

Responsible parents do not upend young children from their home, school and support betwork to move into a flat 100 miles away with some guy they have known for a year and have never lived with.

That alone sets off huge red flags even if the DDs abilities to parent was perfectly normal, surely?[/quote]
Err we all move regardless for the needs of everyone mainly work.
Kids move school all the time too.

Yes she could of taken is slower but she didn’t and this is her life not her mothers. Like I said I’d like the daughters take on this.

[PearlescentIridescent]

@Rachie1973 @Dullardmullard But that's my point, relocating for work is a valid an responsible reason to move. You honestly think it's the same to move in with a guy? No support network, sounds like no job or anything lined up?

[Dullardmullard]

[quote PearlescentIridescent]**@Rachie1973* @Dullardmullard* But that's my point, relocating for work is a valid an responsible reason to move. You honestly think it's the same to move in with a guy? No support network, sounds like no job or anything lined up?[/quote]
Ahhh but you don’t know that we only have her mother saying all this.

Funny how the OP is very vague on details and if she lived with her mother with her suppose learning disabilities why didn’t she have PR as I’ve asked before and we’ve learnt that her daughter can take the kids. So no PR in place as she wouldn’t of been allowed to take the kids. It also looks like her LD isn’t as severe either as there is no SW involved again from the mothers post.

Plus, folks move to be with partners with their children, yes you think it’s too soon others don’t and I think she has been looking to relocate for awhile and it’s only been a surprise to her mother when she told her she was moving.

There is always 3 sides to a story in my book
Your side
Their side
Then the truth

[Dullardmullard]

Also they are in contact daily as her mother has that communication line there.

Yes it’ll be strange for her because the kids where there daily but surely she’d of known one day her daughter and her grandkids would be moving out either with a partner or on her own.

Even moving out of the area

[Rachie1973]

[quote PearlescentIridescent]**@Rachie1973* @Dullardmullard* But that's my point, relocating for work is a valid an responsible reason to move. You honestly think it's the same to move in with a guy? No support network, sounds like no job or anything lined up?[/quote]
She’s calling daily so she certainly has support from her mother.

We just don’t know. Blokey might actually be an ok support to her.