Can my DD take the children in these circumstances?

[IceCreamSnob]

Sorry this will be long: I desperately need advice

For background - My DD has two small daughters (both under 7) with her ex partner. They split up two years ago, he still see's the children but my DD has custody of them both. She and the kids live with us (myself and DH) at the moment. DD has some learning difficulties related to an accident she suffered as a teenager and struggles to care for her children without heavy support. Because of this myself and my DH do a lot of the childcare for our dgd's.

About a year ago DD told us that she had a met a new boyfriend online. She bought him round to see us soon after and introduced him to the kids. A couple of months later she asked if he could move in because he was being evicted from his accommodation. I said no. DD had a huge strop at me and declared that she would move out then. I said fine. Heard no more about it from her (she quite often says she'll do stuff in the heat of the moment then doesn't bother) until I came back from work on Tuesday. DD was not at home and most of her stuff was gone. I rang her and asked where she was. She said she was with her boyfriend (in his hometown) and they were moving into a flat together that day.

The flat (that she hadn't told us about) is nearly 100 miles away from us and all her close family (it's in the same area that her boyfriend is from) . She's now saying that she and her boyfriend are going to come back and take the children to live with them on Monday.

I have serious concerns that the children won't be looked after.

The few times that DD has had the children alone (without support) have not gone well. She doesn't spot potential hazards (ie: she left on a hot iron unattended in DGD's bedroom and one of the kids caught her arm on it) another time the younger dgd was nearly hit by a car because she didn't hold dgd's hand whilst crossing a main road.

She doesn't plan anything in advance or think ahead. This often means she doesn't have food in the house or she'll forget to collect the kids from school unless we remind her. She has no new school organised for them currently, she says she'll look for one after Christmas...

The few times I have met her boyfriend I have been concerned about his behaviour towards dd. He's very posessive and overbearing. If we went out for a meal for example then he wouldn't let DD go to the loo by herself for example. He would insist on waiting outside the toilet door. He also answers her phone for her and opens her post. He has his own children but he has no contact with them

When they turn up on Monday can I refuse to let the children go with them? I've suggested to DD that she comes back and we discuss it but she's insisting on taking them Monday. I'm very concerned for their welfare

Thanks for reading

[CodenameVillanelle]

@Meredithgrey1

I’m amazed how some people seem to think you can just call SS, be taken completely at your word, and they will immediately enact some sort of emergency power to keep a parent from their children. What kind of system would that be? How incredibly open to abuse it would be.

To be clear I’m not saying the OP is attempting to abuse the system in any way.

Absolutely!
People don't grasp what their civil liberties really mean.

[Rachie1973]

Oh and if SS are involved eventually don’t think they’ll just give you your grandchildren and go away.

You’ll have to jump through hoops yourself. The SGO assessment is invasive and long! Medical records, financial records, references from all your children and ex partners. I had to go to panel to be approved as a reg 24 foster carer whilst we waited for it to get to court. The whole process of reaching SGO where I have overriding PR has taken a year alone.

[Nonamesavail]

I agree with keeping your daughter on your side right now will be best x

[Rachie1973]

@Nonamesavail

I agree with keeping your daughter on your side right now will be best x

Definitely. It’s very hard to keep one eye on the children if she won’t allow you to see them because she thinks you’re ‘against’ them.

Try to arrange sleepovers at yours and visits to see her ‘family’.

[pinkyredrose]

What does the children's father have to say about her plans?

[dottiedodah]

What a worrying situation for you.Have no exp of this ,however as others have said here ,can you maybe call your DD and have a friendly word (try not to sound judgmental,difficult I know)and say "Hi Jane hope you OK how about staying with us over Xmas, be nice to be together for the DGD" Maybe she will realise that she will struggle .

[opinionatedfreak]

So much misinformation on here.

And also a salutary tale about how informal arrangements can be risky for children.

@CodenameVillanelle presumably as part of the SW assessment they will look into the new bloke? If he is very high risk eg. previous convictions, then surely they could act immediately to prevent the children moving in with him?

However, I suspect in those circumstances the OP’s DD (kids’ DM) would simply say she was moving out with the kids on her own. Which in itself without significant documentation from professionals expressing parenting concerns would only at best trigger assessment of her parenting. And at worst nothing would be done unless further concerns were expressed?

@IceCreamSnob I would suggest a softly softly approach advocating the kids stay to finish the term and contacting SS to see if they can start an assessment especially of the new bloke.

Such a hard situation. I feel for you.

[Whosinwhoville]

Hi

Contact children’s services today for advice. Don’t wait until Monday

[Flvq]

@Whosinwhoville

Hi

Contact children’s services today for advice. Don’t wait until Monday

If you do this you will be told to call on Monday as it isn’t an emergency.

[Yellowmellow2]

@Whosinwhoville

Hi

Contact children’s services today for advice. Don’t wait until Monday

Sigh.....

Read previous posts about SS’s role Whoiswhoville

[Yellowmellow2]

And also a salutary tale about how informal arrangements can be risky for children

Agree. Very tricky.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@opinionatedfreak

So much misinformation on here.

And also a salutary tale about how informal arrangements can be risky for children.

*@CodenameVillanelle* presumably as part of the SW assessment they will look into the new bloke? If he is very high risk eg. previous convictions, then surely they could act immediately to prevent the children moving in with him?

However, I suspect in those circumstances the OP’s DD (kids’ DM) would simply say she was moving out with the kids on her own. Which in itself without significant documentation from professionals expressing parenting concerns would only at best trigger assessment of her parenting. And at worst nothing would be done unless further concerns were expressed?

*@IceCreamSnob* I would suggest a softly softly approach advocating the kids stay to finish the term and contacting SS to see if they can start an assessment especially of the new bloke.

Such a hard situation. I feel for you.

If they did a check and found he was a schedule one offender or similar they would go and speak to the mum and share that information. They would assess from her response what kind of action they need to take. Most likely they would expect her to take the kids back to a safe place whether that's with her or not. If she refused they could definitely apply to court but usually in cases like this we would try to persuade rather than going to court and it's usually effective. Most mothers don't actually want to expose their children to dangerous men, and if they are given information they will act protectively.

[Parkermumma07]

Unless you have parental responsibility for the children you cannot stop her from taking them unless you contact social services they will be best to advise you on what you can / can’t do but it’s hardly in the children’s interest to be taken 100 miles away from friends and family.
Are the girls already known to social care?

I second the clares law application contact 101 in the police are he lives and they will take details. They won’t disclose anything to you but if they have concerns they will contact your daughter and give disclosure to her.

[Unsure33]

Hope you get some help. Those poor children being dragged away from a loving home , their school and friends.

I would be saying to your daughter that she should live with the boyfriend for a while before taking the children . Call her bluff .

What a sad situation.

[AliceMcK]

@IceCreamSnob

Thank you so much for the advice - I'll make some phone calls ASAP.

To answer questions, her ex partner now lives abroad. He comes over and spends time with the girls whenever he can be it's obviously been more of a challenge this year. He rents a 1 bedroom flat from his employer (he has to live onsite as part of his job contract) so I don't think he'd be in a position to have them full time at the moment. They both have parental rights.

I'll try and update this thread once we have (hopefully good) news

If their Dad has parental rights, can he support you with the police and social services to stop your DD from taking them away?

Also maybe ask for a police check on the new BF, you can do this is you have concerns about the safety of a child I believe.

[wheretoyougonow]

Your daughter is an adult with capacity. You need to lower your expectations of what SS can or will do. Nothing you have written is an indication of serious harm.
However, I would advise that you make a Claire's Law application. Just to be absolutely clear, you will not be told if there is an issue but your daughter will.

[opinionatedfreak]

@CodenameVillanelle glad you see a better side of decision making than I do!

I see a very limited number of safeguarding cases and sadly all too often the people involved seem to be thinking about anyone but their children.

[CodenameVillanelle]

@AliceMcK If their Dad has parental rights, can he support you with the police and social services to stop your DD from taking them away?

No. Read the thread.

[CodenameVillanelle]

[quote opinionatedfreak]@CodenameVillanelle glad you see a better side of decision making than I do!

I see a very limited number of safeguarding cases and sadly all too often the people involved seem to be thinking about anyone but their children.[/quote]
Yes you may be right
There is a heavy element of 'if you don't agree to this then this might happen' and arguably it is coercive.

[notapizzaeater]

Is your daughter getting pip? Registered disabled in any way ? Everything will take time 😢. Could you but some by suggesting they stay with you till they've got the school sorted ?

[todayIdrankmilk]

You can get the police/ ss involved but you cannot refuse to give the children to their mother and legal guardian.
Also be prepared that your relationship with your own dd and gdc will likely be damaged for a very long time.

[Frazzled2207]

This is a very tough situation. See what SS say - hopefully you can speak to someone today. Also contact school’s HT urgently. Maybe as a short term measure he could speak to the mum and convince her that taking out of school without a clear plan is not a good idea?

[Frazzled2207]

Also if the df is reasonable and shared your concerns he might be able to speak to ss to give some weight to the argument

[CodenameVillanelle]

@Frazzled2207

Also if the df is reasonable and shared your concerns he might be able to speak to ss to give some weight to the argument

Weight to what argument? What do you think is going to happen here?

[Rachie1973]

@Frazzled2207

Also if the df is reasonable and shared your concerns he might be able to speak to ss to give some weight to the argument

Unlikely since he’s barely involved and therefore it’s hearsay. Courts rarely allow this type of evidence.