Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

[WinWinnieTheWay]

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

@midnightstar66

Awk, we as a nation are mocked for our words, our behaviour, traits and typical class habits all the time, we mock them ourselves. It's a great quality to be able to laugh at oneself!

Aaaaawk we are . I'm from NI where we also say Och in that context.

My friends from Ireland (as in the Republic OI) used to laugh so much when I said "och aye"! I loved living in Scotland as I did with DH after we graduated. They totally 'got' my coloquialisms. I even got the hang of some of the doric.

My amazing friend with the aristocracy, tattoos, suppah and nursery, impersonates my accent every time we meet up. Very badly. She sounds like the Lucky Charms leprechaun . She can't seem to help herself. I find it hilarious.

Maw and Paw like the Broons 😂

Paw Christmas ?

Always has been and always will be Father Christmas - I don't like Santa at all.

@VanityWitch och isn't that common in my part of Scotland, would mostly just be used in jest.
I bet the ROI Irish get a bit tired of being asked to say thirty three and a third by giggling non Irish people though?

Vanitywitch, you really are living up to your name, yes, we get it, you are very proud of your heritage, it 'is' Santa where you're from. My upbringing differs from yours and it is a not an affectation, it is very much the name used in my household and still is! Yes, I probably had a middle-class upbringing by most people's standards but I don't think it is that, I know that my Dad was against Americanisation of English culture which in the 80's 90's was fairly prevalent. English culture in London where I grew up in the 80s where very very different to American culture. There was a feeling by my parents/grandparents of trying to preserve English culture and reject Mickey Mouse, I know they weren't the only ones amongst their friends etc. How is that different from trying to preserve celtic culture? It's not anti - American to say you want to preserve your heritage. My married surname is Irish and my husband is Jewish but he also refers to Father Christmas as he grew up in London. His Dad I think said, Santa.

[quote midnightstar66]@VanityWitch och isn't that common in my part of Scotland, would mostly just be used in jest.
I bet the ROI Irish get a bit tired of being asked to say thirty three and a third by giggling non Irish people though? [/quote]
Especially as it is only a very small, regionally-specific minority of working-class accents that pronounce 'th' as 't'.

@Goldenbear

My upbringing differs from yours and it is a not an affectation, it is very much the name used in my household and still is

Oh thank God you were here. Because it isn't as if in EVERY post I've written on this thread I have said, "not talking about people who are just brought up to say FC and that's that", "again, not saying this about people who are just brought up that way". Oh, wait a second... I HAVE been doing that .

And thanks for calling me vain 🤣🤣. Again, it isn't as if I've already called myself that. Oh...oh yes I did.

[quote midnightstar66]@VanityWitch och isn't that common in my part of Scotland, would mostly just be used in jest.
I bet the ROI Irish get a bit tired of being asked to say thirty three and a third by giggling non Irish people though? [/quote]
Ugh no, I would never! I actually don't know anyone who says that! And people ask me to say thirty three and a third. I am from Ulster 😂😂😂😂. It's like thirdy three and a third in my accent.

@Goldenbear but as you can clearly see from this thread Santa isn’t an Americanization.

I say Father Christmas, because that's the term I grew up with.

AFAIK we've had personifications of Christmas in England since the medieval times, but Father Christmas first became prevalent during the c17th as a response to Puritanism, hence Father Christmas' lines in traditional mummers plays about hoping he won't be forgotten. So it amused me when a pp said Father Christmas sounds puritanical!

The first written use of Santa Claus (as opposed to Sinterklaas or St Nicholas) is in New York in the 1770s, so it appears it may be an American import (or rather Dutch import via America) but certainly not a recent one! Santa Claus has been in use in large parts of the British Isles for 150 to 200 years, so no newer than having Father Christmas represented as a red clad gift giver.

Full disclosure btw, and I feel I should maybe whisper this; I grew up in NI but I am originally from the states . I know, I know. What a low class combo. Scumbag. But, an educated scumbag, so you know. There's that .

@RizzleDrizzle

i find it an annoying erasure of regional words to just assume its an Americanism

Absolutely and it tends to be words used in perhaps more working class/Celtic areas that get dismissed and derided as “Americanisms”

"mom' is a big one that always gets 'thats american' no it isnt, most of the Birmingham area population use Mom.

As to the point of the thread, always been Santa here! Father Christmas seems faintly stuck up, don't know why.

I use both, whichever is easier to say at the time works for me.

But you are implying that a large number of people refer to Father Christmas to make themselves appear 'upper class'- I'm not really sure why anyone would want to be associated with the green wellie brigade, citing your 'upper class' pal as evidence of the upper classes referring to him as Santa and it must be true as this very same individual is so very, very 'upper class' as she refers to Supper and has dedicated nurseries in her many residences because she is 'upper class' don't you know. She employs Mary Poppins and lives in Cherry Tree Lane- you seem quite desperate to prove your point!

As a Santa person from a Santa area I don't think it would be fair of me to think the use of Father Christmas, in a Father Christmas area is stuck up. It's just what it's called in that area.

But equally, people who use Father Christmas have no right to look down their noses at those of us who have only ever known the name to be Santa.

@Goldenbear

But you are implying that a large number of people refer to Father Christmas to make themselves appear 'upper class'- I'm not really sure why anyone would want to be associated with the green wellie brigade, citing your 'upper class' pal as evidence of the upper classes referring to him as Santa and it must be true as this very same individual is so very, very 'upper class' as she refers to Supper and has dedicated nurseries in her many residences because she is 'upper class' don't you know. She employs Mary Poppins and lives in Cherry Tree Lane- you seem quite desperate to prove your point!

No, I'm not . You are mistaken and suggest you read my posts again.

But, if it's easier, I will reiterate for you.

The op suggested that Santa is lower class. The op brought up class in the first place. Another poster said it is common on MN for people to want to appear to be from a more upper class background and that they then insist they only say FC, supper, sitting room and so on.

I quoted that person and said there is an element of that. Because what the op said is actually a commonly held view in some places, it inevitably leads to those who are desperate to appear to come from an upper class background, to contrive to say whay they perceive to be the upper class thing. I was very careful to say then, repeatedly, that this does not apply to everyone who says FC. Another poster then said "don't get an inferiority complex about your accent" and another said "how awful to make fun of upper class english accents". I responded that it was intended in good fun and that my accent gets mocked all the time. I mock my own accent too.

My "vanity" which you accuse me of having because I am proud of my heritage, isn't such that I don't see the funny side of all the differences in regional accents. I love that we all sound different and I am lucky to have friends from all over the country and all over the world, from numerous social backgrounds and cultures. If any of them said that FC is the right one and Santa is dead common, as the op did, I would laugh myself silly. If they then took the hump, I'd probably laugh even more, inwardly perhaps, to be polite.

But, do read back over my posts. I think you Jace entirely misread them.

Scuse typos. I'm on my phone.

Peppafrig, I know! My point is that we were very much brought up to reject the Americanisation of our culture, which is English, we could relate more to Harry Potter, The Lion the witch and the wardrobe and Winnie the Pooh (not Disney version) than Huckleberry Fin! The English culture of folklore, legends, enchantment was I suppose what my parent's generation were brought up with and trying to preserve.

Why do you keep referring to people that have 'upper class' accents. If you mean London RP, many of these people will just be middle class and not have any upper class heritage. You seem to have trouble accepting that many people do speak with no açcent particularly in the south and it really isn't an affectation, it is just the way they speak and they are probably more likely to refer to 'Father Christmas' in this region. It is purely coincidental.

I am in my 50s and only ever said Santa so it isn't anything new.

Goldenbear you seem quite surprised there is a Britain outside of "your" London you are showing yourself to be in the same mindset as the original poster which is proving the point of many other posters.

@Goldenbear

Why do you keep referring to people that have 'upper class' accents. If you mean London RP, many of these people will just be middle class and not have any upper class heritage. You seem to have trouble accepting that many people do speak with no açcent particularly in the south and it really isn't an affectation, it is just the way they speak and they are probably more likely to refer to 'Father Christmas' in this region. It is purely coincidental.

People in the South of England do speak with an accent. I've lived all over the world. There is no such thing as "no accent". Many of my university friends, my husband and children speak with "RP" accents. I never said that was an affectation. But it is an accent. Some people do put on that accent, but usually not. Some people put on common accents too, but again, usually not.

Why do you think I think people's accents are always put on? I've never even mentioned accents as an affectation. Are you even reading MY posts or did you pluck my name out of the air to attack me personally, because the thread has annoyed you? You called me vain for being proud of my heritage. For someone who is so very proud of their english heritage, your grasp of the language seems to be somewhat lacking. Pride in one's heritage is not vanity. Particularly, a heritage, like mine where the history has not always been pleasant. If anyone has the right to be offended here, it is probably me. But I'm not, because I don't pay much attention to nonsense.