Why is everyone referring to "Santa"

[WinWinnieTheWay]

DH and I (from different UK countries and different social class) were both brought up with Father Christmas. Why are so many people calling FC "Santa" these days? Is it just the impact of American culture? Each to their own, but I don't like it.

@Steroidsandantidepressants

I actually have a real problem with being told that the language I use is “horrible”.

Sorry but I do. It’s designed to other and exclude me, make me feel lesser and it’s harassment. The Halloween turnip. The it’s an Americanism. The don’t dare say haitch it’s common. Along with the ubiquitous “my child had a paddy” it contributes to making me feel unwelcome here.

It would be really nice if mumsnet could talk to posters from Ireland and the Celtic nations of the uk and come up with some kind of policy around not tolerating this kind of undertone of racism.

Yes, this! I reported "having a paddy" yesterday, it was deleted as it usually is in fairness.

And it's not just us Celts. I imagine MN is a fairly horrible place at times for American posters.

Fair point @MindyStClaire.

I might start a thread in site stuff.

@Steroidsandantidepressants

I actually have a real problem with being told that the language I use is “horrible”.

Sorry but I do. It’s designed to other and exclude me, make me feel lesser and it’s harassment. The Halloween turnip. The it’s an Americanism. The don’t dare say haitch it’s common. Along with the ubiquitous “my child had a paddy” it contributes to making me feel unwelcome here.

It would be really nice if mumsnet could talk to posters from Ireland and the Celtic nations of the uk and come up with some kind of policy around not tolerating this kind of undertone of racism.

God yes, everything on your list is so accurate. I'd also add the tendency on the Baby Names forum to decry any Irish names as unpronounceable and extremely difficult. Apparently the posters should all just use English language names as while Polish/Nigerian/Russian names are perfectly ok, the Celtic names are just too foreign for some people.

Valid point as well @SionnachRua.

If I start the thread would youse post on it?

My dad is Irish, my mum is from Liverpool (so strong Irish cultural influences).

Always been santa here for as long as I can remember. Father Christmas was antiquated 30 years ago.

I will happily join, but honestly nothing will change. Things are better now, "having a paddy" is deleted 9 times out of 10 that I report it for example, but you'll never change that innate racism in many posts.

@MindyStClaire

I will happily join, but honestly nothing will change. Things are better now, "having a paddy" is deleted 9 times out of 10 that I report it for example, but you'll never change that innate racism in many posts.

That’s depressing. But probably true.

I'd also add the tendency on the Baby Names forum to decry any Irish names as unpronounceable and extremely difficult. Apparently the posters should all just use English language names as while Polish/Nigerian/Russian names are perfectly ok, the Celtic names are just too foreign for some people.

Don't forget Irish names being "naughty boy names".

Oh I have a child with a naughty name. Because it’s an Irish name and hard to spell, apparently.

To me “Fathah Christmas” only visits children who have nurseries and eat “suppah”

Or more commonly on here, people who make song and dance about it want you to think they have nurseries and eat "suppah".

Variations on Father Christmans/SinterKlaas and older names are just regional variations. Even within the UK the regions historically vary.

Only the aspidistra class claim some kind of moral superiority for the naming they have adopted.

I'd definitely post on it but not sure anything would change! I think MN don't want to tackle the issue really. I've reported stuff as well alright and it gets deleted but think it may be just to shut me up?

Always Santa/Santy in NI/Ireland and I now live in NE England where it is the same. Nothing to do with the US

We always say Father Christmas, but we are in England. If I were in Scotland for example it would be Santa as that’s what they have always used. Father Christmas is actually the minority and usually only England. The rest of UK says Santa and always have, nothing to do with America.

Santa was exported from Ireland and Scotland to America by settlers.

It may be that it was more the Dutch - the centre point of the expansion of Christmas as a massive thing and the Santa figure may have been New York, which of course began as new Amsterdam.

We used both terms interchangeably when I was a kid in the 60s (northern English parents, but in Essex). I don't think either was in any way considered superior. We were certainly all told the story of the original St Nicholas which as far as I can see gives 'Santa' historical precedence.

If i was to speak English to someone I’d say Father Christmas. But in Wales we say Sion Corn.

Or more commonly on here, people who make song and dance about it want you to think they have nurseries and eat "suppah".

Snort. Yes, there is an element of this I think.

Obviously, some people are just brought up to say it and that's that, but there is a touch of the Valerie Jones about people who contrive to say it so they sound naicer.

FWIW, my only friend who is from a genuinely aristocratic family, went to public school and all that crap, owns a stately home, plus flats in London and all, says Santa. She also has tattoos . She does have suppah and her dcs do have a nursery though in one of their homes. I adore her btw.

I did have it in my diary to start a “why do people call Santa Father Christmas “ thread today to get in before the “Santa is so horrid and common” thread but it was already too late. What I don’t understand is why the Father Christmas, lunch not dinner, supper not tea, lavatory not toilet, no Halloween etc posters can’t stop at “I’ve always said X not Y”. They have to add a little nasty comment about Y as well. Which provokes the Y people to retaliate. Live and let live.

I’m in the north west and it’s always been Father Christmas for us. I have family in Scotland and to them it’s Santa. I’m guessing it’s just a regional and even personal thing. I prefer Father Christmas but my children seem to prefer, and automatically say Santa but they also watch a lot of American things. I’m happy either way. It’s interchangeable now in our house

Variations on Father Christmans/SinterKlaas and older names are just regional variations. Even within the UK the regions historically vary.

Quite so, and the branding of English people as "snobby" if they're using their local term and mocking pronunciations ('fathah') is pretty unedifying.

Not having a clue about the derivation and distribution of dialect terms may be ignorant and lazy in the days of Wikipedia , but it's not really a signifier of 'class' or superiority in any direction.

@ErrolTheDragon

Santa was exported from Ireland and Scotland to America by settlers.

It may be that it was more the Dutch - the centre point of the expansion of Christmas as a massive thing and the Santa figure may have been New York, which of course began as new Amsterdam.

We used both terms interchangeably when I was a kid in the 60s (northern English parents, but in Essex). I don't think either was in any way considered superior. We were certainly all told the story of the original St Nicholas which as far as I can see gives 'Santa' historical precedence.

It absolutely was the Dutch.

Some historians have suggested that during the Revolutionary War many in America adopted Sinter Klaas / Santa Claus as a way of boycotting another English import, Father Christmas.

Not having a clue about the derivation and distribution of dialect terms may be ignorant and lazy in the days of Wikipedia , but it's not really a signifier of 'class' or superiority in any direction

Quite so, which is why the op is so ridiculous and why people who do clamour (deny it all you like) to say how they do the upper class thing. Again, not people who have been brought up to say it and that's that, but people who say it because they've been told (by people like the op) that it makes them sound like they come from a more upper class background. Which, whatever way you look at it, is piss your pants funny to my very lower class self (and I'm allowed to say myself in this context, cos I'm Irish).

And gentle mocking of people who say suppah isn't , don't get your knickers in a twist. I mock my own accent and enjoy the difference between the two. In Ulster, we pronounce our Rs. At the Ulster rugby ground there is a chant which goes:

Give us a U, give us an L, give us an S, give us a T, give us an E, give us an R, give us an R, give us an R, give us an R. What does it spell? Ulsterrrr!

Nobody loses their shit and passes out with offense.

My DH says fathah, as do my kids. I think it's adorable.

When I did a presentation at fancy pants university, I had to say the word fatherrr (in my accent). Everyone giggled and I didn't know why, but later realised it was my accent. It was good natured and I didn't feel the need to clutch my pearls over it.

It's always fascinating how insular some people's lives must be. There's their tiny world, where everyone says and does things the same way as they do, and there's America (the modern-day Sodom and Gomorrah, from where everything is bad and wrong).

Or maybe blinkered might be a better world - they have got to whatever age with an ongoing confirmation bias until something suddenly clicks and they realised things can be different and then they see it everywhere.

I mean the OP seems to think 'Santa' is a newfound word in the UK (or maybe she means maybe England). It's been around England since 18-something or other. It did come from America (from the Dutch for St Nicholas). But it's a bit of a delay in noticing it really, been 'everywhere' for about 150 years.

In fact, I don't think back then Father Christmas gave presents he was just the personification of Christmas (so was more like Jack Frost). So if your Father Christmas comes around on Christmas Eve and gives presents then he is, in fact, Santa Claus and not the original Father Christmas.

People do things differ shock is rife on MN, and it never fails to surprise me how posters just don't know anyone who does it differently. Things like the whole 'Mom' is American, and not knowing 'anyone' who wears shoes inside (and vice versa with that one).

"... do the upper class thing...are equally ridiculous"

Should have said^^

There are quite a few deriding comments about referring to 'Father Christmas' on this thread...'it was antiquated 30 years ago' BS about supper and nurseries etc. You'll have to get over it, some people do say Father Christmas and it does seem to be perhaps more common in the south east of England. Why have an inferiority complex about it- you are just reading what you want in to this. I say Father Christmas, my brother says Father Christmas, my children say it as do many of their friends. It's Father Christmas in The Snowman, the location of which is meant to be in Sussex so maybe it is reflective of to the region and that is that, rather than some big offence. Tolerance works both ways.

I’m amused by ‘suppah’ as a shibboleth for the aspirant upper-middle classes. ‘Suppah’ is the biscuit and milk that middle and working-class children in NW England have before they go to bed.