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Original poster

John Lennon died forty years ago tomorrow.

54 replies

WildRosie · 07/12/2020 13:09

He would have celebrated his eightieth birthday in October. I wonder how he would have spent those years had he lived ? He, Yoko and Sean were already moving towards a life of simple domesticity in New York and there was already about a six year gap between his new albums (Walls and Bridges in 1974 then Double Fantasy in 1980). I think he would have continued a relatively low profile life, making new music occasionally and perhaps speaking up for the Peace movement he'd championed several years before his death.

That's just my twopenn'orth anyway. We will never know for sure.

OP posts:
FoxyTheFox · 08/12/2020 07:42

VinylDetective completely proving my point about society turning a blind eye to the misdeeds of men who are talented and/or rich.

Samcro · 08/12/2020 07:50

who knows
\maybe he would have apologised for this

Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/12/2020 08:49

I'm a fan of his but in his private life he definitely wasn't a good person a lot of the time. Not that it's an excuse but he lost his mother as a teen and I think he just stayed angry at the world after that.

CaptainMyCaptain · 08/12/2020 08:49

Staying in bed for two weeks for World Peace - that was successful wasn't it? I've read that they didn't leave the bed for anything ... anything at all.

VinylDetective · 08/12/2020 11:00

@FoxyTheFox

VinylDetective completely proving my point about society turning a blind eye to the misdeeds of men who are talented and/or rich.
It’s not a question of turning a blind eye at all. It’s separating the work from the man - something 21st century society seems to be incapable of doing. Along with the compulsion to judge the past by the completely different standards of today.

I’d like to see the evidence that he was a liar, what did he lie about? His reputation is for brutal honesty. Terrorism is very subjective, there are those who consider Nelson Mandela a terrorist. Adultery wasn’t really a concept in the circles he moved in at the height of his career, it was very much a culture of free love. There’s no defence for violence against anyone.

I wonder whether he’d be amused or horrified by the neo Puritan attitude of some sections of 21st century society which embodies attitudes he poured scorn on. Perhaps that’s why he’s so reviled.

Ohalrightthen · 08/12/2020 11:14

I find him to be a pretty problematic character tbh, but in recent years whenever i think of JL i remember Paul McCartney being stopped by a journo at the protests in New York after the Parkland shooting. This guy asked him why he was there, and McCartney, standing a block from the Dakota, looked at this man like he was a little worm on his shoe and said "my best friend was shot to death just over there by a man who should never have been able to own a gun, it's been nearly 40 years and nothing has changed!"

It was such an out-of-the-blue moment, it stuck with me.

KnitFastDieWarm · 08/12/2020 13:40

While I agree with previous posters about not judging someone by today’s standards, there’s never really been a time (in the last century or so, at least) when it was acceptable to physically assault women and to callously neglect and ignore your own child.

What we need is a halfway house between cancel culture (which is utterly toxic and puritanical) and what i call ‘roman polanski syndrome’ - when people make excuses for behaviour BECAUSE of art, as if being talented somehow cancels out being an abusive prick.

John Lennon was undeniably immensely talented. He was also not a very nice person. Those things can coexist.

FoxyTheFox · 08/12/2020 14:39

Why should we separate the work from the man? Separating the work from the man means that he can still be held up as a hero, an inspiration, someone for people to look up to when really no one should be considering such a person as inspirational or heroic.

Nat6999 · 08/12/2020 14:49

Another one of those dates that most people will always remember where they were when they heard. I was 14 & can remember hearing on the news.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/12/2020 14:51

Foxy but as a musician he IS an inspiration to many people. Without the Beatles we wouldn't have many of the bands and artists we have today. You can't just pretend he has no influence in the industry because he was a bad person in his personal life.

VinylDetective · 08/12/2020 14:52

@FoxyTheFox

Why should we separate the work from the man? Separating the work from the man means that he can still be held up as a hero, an inspiration, someone for people to look up to when really no one should be considering such a person as inspirational or heroic.
It actually means the reverse. It means the work is judged on its merits without being coloured by the character of its creator.
ComeonMoira · 08/12/2020 15:03

Oh god, Jeremy Vine was doing his awful Sad & Respectful voice when introducing a segment on this today.

SerendipityJane · 08/12/2020 15:34

.. he was a liar, an adulterer , he took his fists to his wife and he supported terrorism

He was a man out of time. If he'd been born 20 years later he'd be in the Tory party.

nosswith · 08/12/2020 15:34

I don't think he'd be celebrated much were he alive today, because of his violence towards his first wife.

Though the suggestion made about Live Aid in 1985 and the Beatles performing one last time I think would have happened.

SameToo · 08/12/2020 15:39

Didn’t like him. Don’t like the Beetles, their music is annoying.

SameToo · 08/12/2020 15:39

Oo-er auto correct Beatles

jessstan1 · 08/12/2020 15:40

@x2boys

I remember reading articles in the 1980,s ,him and Yoko were apparently heavily into drugs and allegedly neglected Sean quite a bit ,would they have stayed together ?
I think they'd have weathered the storm.
InterfectoremVulpes · 08/12/2020 15:43

@CaptainMyCaptain

Staying in bed for two weeks for World Peace - that was successful wasn't it? I've read that they didn't leave the bed for anything ... anything at all.
They did leave the bed to allow the maid to change the bedding...
John Lennon died forty years ago tomorrow.
CaptainMyCaptain · 08/12/2020 17:51

Well that must have been a nice job (not). The report I read (can't remember where, it was a few years ago) said that the bedding was soiled and the room stank.

deepbluesea18 · 08/12/2020 18:36

Poor John. He was a basket case at the end - drug addled, half-starved, obsessed with Paul and completely controlled by Ono. He signed a power of attorney giving her complete control of his life. If anyone was responsible for cutting Julian out of the will, it was her.

She was having an affair with a hustler called Sam Green. Sam Green was ostensibly an ‘art dealer’, but he had form for leeching off women like Yoko (rich, mentally unstable, drug addled, bored) and mysteriously being named in wills. He was named in John’s will as Sean’s guardian should anything happen to both of them.

Then there was Sam Havadtoy. She was also having an affair with him, and presumably playing the two Sams off against each other. Sam Havadtoy moved in hours after John was killed.

These were bad people and John was a victim. What happened to him was a tragedy and I don’t mean being shot.

beguilingeyes · 01/12/2021 13:43

I was 18 when he was shot. I remember people crying in the street.

EYProvider · 01/12/2021 14:05

I see the Sam Green connection has been made. Mind-blowing stuff.

BleuJay · 01/12/2021 14:15

@DioneTheDiabolist

I think he would have become an annoying twat like Bono.
Yes! A looney liberal with no grasp on reality.
EYProvider · 01/12/2021 14:23

But at least he would have been funny, unlike Bono. Well, pre-Ono he would have been funny.

OnceUponAMidnightBeery · 01/12/2021 14:26

Wasn’t it the 8th December, not the 2nd?