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Original poster

Question for religious Mumsnetters: doubting my atheism

47 replies

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 01:49

I've been a staunch atheist ever since I was little. Really couldn't fathom how people believed in God, heaven and hell, etc. My mum used to be very religious but had a crisis of faith when I was little and is now just vaguely spiritual. Dad agnostic. I guess I'd describe myself as being an existentialist. I think life is essentially meaningless and random and that's okay. Our lives are our own and it's up to us to make the most of them.

But now I find myself doubting my atheism. I've recently been feeling this pull towards believing in some higher power. Some divine force, maybe, that started everything off, a First Cause type of thing. I can't shake the feeling that all of the sophistication and incredible detail we observe in nature couldn't have occurred by chance.

And I've always struggled with gratitude as an atheist. Being so overwhelmingly thankful for my life. Since having a child this has become so intense - I just want to cry out to the universe how grateful I am for my son, how "blessed" I feel, but there's nowhere for that gratitude to go as an atheist. Who do you thank? Evolution? Biology and chemistry and physics? I suppose that makes sense logically but it feels empty and hollow.

I just feel there's ~something~ and I don't know what to do with this feeling. Where do I begin? I have always loved churches, the sense of stillness and peace, the hymns, the art, the ritual of it, and always loved learning about different faiths, but I don't like the idea of seeking out an organised religion to settle myself into. I don't think I believe in a moral God, or one who would intervene in human affairs. It's just this vague nebulous sense of awe and wonder and gratitude. What do I do with it?

OP posts:

Mycastle · 05/12/2020 01:55

You sound as if you are leaning towards being agnostic.

DioneTheDiabolist · 05/12/2020 02:00

I'm not overly religious OP, but I believe in god so I will answer your question as best I can: It's just this vague nebulous sense of awe and wonder and gratitude. What do I do with it?
Enjoy it and be inspired by it.

BaseDrops · 05/12/2020 02:06

Become a Quaker. Or a Buddhist.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Philosophy & religion

PopsicleHustler · 05/12/2020 02:28

It's amazing what you can learn if you open your mind op. I was a Christian but I stopped attending churches as it felt more like a party, than it did a place if worship and to focus on my relationship with God. I also couldn't understand why every single Sunday was so based on worshipping jesus. I felt very strongly that Jesus wasnt God. And I couldn't understand why people in church were saying thank you Lord jesus. I also couldn't take being whacked over the head with the flag of god or people on the floor wailing thank you jesus. In the end I stopped attending. I was also having a bad experience with evil spirits in my home. To the extent of where I asked people from the church for help but they couldn't help me.

Some years later, I met my beautiful husband and when we met, I told him I was a Christian. He said he is Muslim. No problem. I see everyone equal. Plus I had a lot of friends who were muslim.

He started teaching me things about islam . Everything made so much sense. He taught me about scientific facts that are in the Quran that are only being proven today and less than 100 years ago. He taught me about jesus place in islam. I literally had no idea muslims believe in Jesus. But he taught me that jesus was a messenger sent by God to the world to teach about God. Even the quran shows how jesus talked about how lovely prophet muhammed was and that he will come after me. All this was written 1400 years ago. All of it made sense to me and I was so entranced at how amazing this faith was.
I have been Muslim now for several years. I wear hijab and it hasn't been an easy road. I get called names because of my headscarf and started and sworn at. But I'm happy being me. I found Islam. The one true faith that teaches there is only one God. One God who created us from nothing.
People have a bad stigma about islam. But the truth is all these terrorists and ISIS are not muslims. They go against the teachings of the quran.
The quran says do not kill for it is as if you have killed the whole if mankind. But if you save someone it is as if you have saved the whole of mankind.
The quran also says to treat animals kindly and to treat them equal to humans.
The quran teaches us to give charity and help the poor and the orphans.
The quran says to be kind and just to your Muslim neighbour the same way as your non muslim neighbour.
All this just appealed to me and made me want to be a muslim. The day I reverted to islam was the best day of my life.

Please watch videos on the miracles of zam zam water and videos by Yussef estes and Mufti menk

It will help give you a better understanding.

PopsicleHustler · 05/12/2020 02:29

I wish you all the very best in your journey to God

August20 · 05/12/2020 02:46

I think life is essentially meaningless and random and that's okay

I smiled reading this OP because it reminds me of this:

Utterly meaningless!
Everything is meaningless.
What do people gain from all their labours
at which they toil under the sun?
Generations come and generations go,
but the earth remains forever...
What has been will be again,
what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun...
No one remembers the former generations,
and even those yet to come
will not be remembered
by those who follow them...
All are from the dust, and to dust all return.

So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad.

August20 · 05/12/2020 02:49

If you don't want to seek out an organised religion, you don't have to. But you may wish to explore private prayer or meditation or secular mindfulness.

Alternatively you might be interested in attending something like an alpha course.

Zzzexhaustedzzz · 05/12/2020 03:05

‘ Where do I begin? I have always loved churches, the sense of stillness and peace, the hymns, the art, the ritual of it....’
Yes I know what you mean. I would describe myself as agnostic, though I was brought up brainwashed into christianity and proceeded to atheism first. Existentialism too, has had a massive influence on my thinking. Not very mentally healthy though I found, in the long run!
I am incredibly grateful for my life in this world. I can’t understand why we expend to much effort exploring space when surely there is nothing like what we have here!
The things that I miss about the church - a sense of belonging, family, a peaceful place, singing together and the whole ritual... I have never found a way to fully replace. But I can’t return to something I think is utterly bizarre, all the Jesus focus... and hypocrites everywhere.
I have enjoyed Quaker meetings and Buddhist meditation but I need to really believe in something to fully commit!

Original poster

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 11:33

@Mycastle

You sound as if you are leaning towards being agnostic.

Yes, I think you're right. I don't think that there's any rational way of 'knowing' whether there's a God or not, which I suppose makes me agnostic by definition.

OP posts:

Original poster

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 11:35

@DioneTheDiabolist

I do enjoy it but feel it needs to take a more definite form, some sort of more formal acknowledgement iyswim? Maybe I should try prayer. I've never done it, because I always thought all praying was meant to be intercessional, which didn't sit right with me. But as a form of meditation it makes more sense to me.

OP posts:

SlightDrizzle · 05/12/2020 11:37

@DioneTheDiabolist

I feel all that too, but I don’t feel the need to direct it at a hypothesised deity. You can admire and enjoy what is.

7Days · 05/12/2020 11:37

You dont need to commit to anything.
You could go to churches outside of services and pray or meditate.
See where it leads

TenCornMaidens · 05/12/2020 11:41

Praying is, to me, talking to God. And ideally listening to God too. But start by just having a chat. About anything. 'Pour your heart out to he Lord'. I imagine that I'm sitting having a cuppa with Jesus and telling him all sorts of stuff, knowing that's he's listening and loves me.

Serenschintte · 05/12/2020 11:43

Hi Op, practicing Catholic here. Prayer can be intercessional. It can also just being with God. I have started to try to have a more regular prayer life and felt a bit stuck. My parish priest said: as a starting point just put yourself in Gods presence and tell him you want to know him better. He knows what is in your heart.
As a Catholic I also would recommend saying the rosary - it’s easy, you don’t have to be a Catholic to say it. It’s also repetitive so that helps with the meditation part. If you Google it you there are instructions online. On Instagram there are lives of people saying it together.

Original poster

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 11:43

@BaseDrops

Become a Quaker. Or a Buddhist.

Buddhism makes a lot of sense to me rationally but leaves me a bit cold - just because I was brought up with Christianity and I don't have any emotional connections with it - maybe I should look into it more. Quakerism seems a bit vague for me, all I know is that you sit in silence and that's it. I don't know. Maybe some sort of paganism is more my thing - getting out in nature is where I really feel spiritually connected.

OP posts:

Camomila · 05/12/2020 11:43

I'm Catholic and I pray but I don't think it matters how you pray or who you pray too if you want to (I think it's all one God, given different names by different cultures).

I too get the sense of "awe", I remember when DS1 was a baby and he'd play in the living room with the light streaming through the window I'd think "thank you God/universe" and feel so lucky/grateful.

WankPuffins · 05/12/2020 11:46

I was raised as a catholic by a very religious mother. I hated it. From tiny I didn't understand why the Jesus helped the poor but the church was dripping in gold and money. I got taken to the Vatican when I was ten. I was appalled and angry. My parents forced me to have my confirmation but I protested through all the classes. The priest said there must be something wrong with me and confirmed me anyway. I flipped him the finger during the service and refused to say the words I was being forced to say. My dad isn't religious - he went through it all to appease my mum. He said he had to go outside and laugh, it was like Damien in the Omen. She died when I was 12 and thankfully I never had to set foot in a church again.

I do believe in god though. I always did. I believe Jesus existed.

I don't believe god or Jesus would want people to steal (like the Catholic Church did), take money every week from worshippers, have children treated terribly, have people condemned due to their beliefs or sexual orientation all in their name.

I don't believe that you have to go to a specific building every Sunday at 10am.

So while I believe in god, I am firmly against religions. They are all about power, greed and money.

Original poster

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 11:51

@Zzzexhaustedzzz

‘ Where do I begin? I have always loved churches, the sense of stillness and peace, the hymns, the art, the ritual of it....’ Yes I know what you mean. I would describe myself as agnostic, though I was brought up brainwashed into christianity and proceeded to atheism first. Existentialism too, has had a massive influence on my thinking. Not very mentally healthy though I found, in the long run! I am incredibly grateful for my life in this world. I can’t understand why we expend to much effort exploring space when surely there is nothing like what we have here! The things that I miss about the church - a sense of belonging, family, a peaceful place, singing together and the whole ritual... I have never found a way to fully replace. But I can’t return to something I think is utterly bizarre, all the Jesus focus... and hypocrites everywhere. I have enjoyed Quaker meetings and Buddhist meditation but I need to really believe in something to fully commit!

Yes, you sound like you're in exactly the same boat as me :)

I might dabble. Try some different things and see what feels right. We have a multifaith chaplaincy where I work, that might be a good starting point.

It's very weird feeling this way. I've always been so staunch in my atheism and to have it shaken is quite unsettling.

OP posts:

Original poster

Boostinthefanjo · 05/12/2020 11:58

@August20

I think life is essentially meaningless and random and that's okay

I smiled reading this OP because it reminds me of this:

So I commend the enjoyment of life, because there is nothing better for a person under the sun than to eat and drink and be glad.

Who knew existentialism was in the old testament? Not me! I just looked that quote up and read an article about Ecclesiastes. It's fascinating! I did an A level in RE and loved learning about the Bible, although we only really covered the gospels.

OP posts:

Europilgrim · 05/12/2020 12:00

I was raised as an atheist, decided to get baptised, confirmed and attended church as an adult - then became an atheist again. But I also pray every day and read the bible. I no longer really have the need for a label. Or 100% belief either way. Even Mother Theresa had doubts. It is human to seek meaning.

Europilgrim · 05/12/2020 12:01

And Ecclisiastes is my favourite book of the bible.

Meruem · 05/12/2020 12:03

I went the opposite way. I always believed in God even though my family weren’t particularly religious. In my mind I always just knew. Everything shitty that happened in my life (and there was a lot) I used to pray and pray for God to help me but he never did. Praying just made me feel more alone and even more like no one cared. One day in my thirties I woke up and thought no, I just don’t believe it anymore. Ironically my life improved from then on. I think being able to accept that sometimes life was shitty and there was no “master plan” actually freed me from all the “whys”. My head was clearer and it enabled me to cope much better. I do feel gratitude for good things now but I don’t think it needs to be directed anywhere. It’s enough just to be grateful.

FluffyPurple · 05/12/2020 14:14

I'm a Christian and my faith is so important to me, I'd suggest www.gotquestions.org/become-a-Christian.html as a short read!

ZZTopGuitarSolo · 05/12/2020 14:41

I’m atheist but when I read your OP I immediately though of Unitarian Universalism. I don’t know if there’s a UK equivalent.

user1274245 · 05/12/2020 14:53

Ritual is psychologically comforting. It fills the intrinsic human need to feel there is some sense of purpose, meaning and connectedness to our lives.

We form emotional attachments to familiar rituals the same way as we do to familiar objects or places.

Some people need to feel their rituals belong to something greater than themselves and others are happier creating their own.

It doesn't really matter so long as you find a path that meets your needs. You don't have to try and shoehorn yourself into anybody else's structures to do that.

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