People that are unsympathetic when someone dies😰

[Lardlizard]

A family friend suddenly died, she was only 49 with young kids.
My mum seemed upset n shocked at after a week and a half she started saying her dh should get back to work
😰😰I’ve explained that maybe he’s just not upto it atm and he just can’t do it
And she just replies well everyone of that age has to work 😰😰😰and doenst listen and carried on saying how he should be going back to work
Which is further complicated by the fact he was due to start a new job, so he’s not even returning to his old job as he got made redundant from that before his wife passed away

But seriously a week and a half later to be saying This when there’s young kids involved is upsetting me so much

It does happen but it's still tragic dying at 49 it's no age to die particularly for her family ,my Dh ,sister died at 41 a few years ago completely out of the blue ,leaving three children I would say that was tragic .

*I'm not very sympathetic about death. It's sad but inevitable. It's only when a child dies before their parent that is not in the natural order.

49 is young but not tragic*

It will be for the children of that 49 year old, and for the husband. Their worlds have changed unrecognisably. He’s now a single parent, will have to raise kids, work, support them at school, facilitate hobbies...
The children have lost a parent. It may mean a complete lifestyle change fo all of them. Money may be scarce as dad may not be able to work the hours, or they may find themselves having to become self sufficient and look after themselves while he’s at work.

They will also have had a shock and will now realise how fragile life is. If they lose their dad then what?

It’s a huge life even for them, and to expect them to just go back to school and behave like nothing’s changed, it isn’t just “sad”.

Of course I'd be sad if DH died, I would be very unhappy to live without him. He's outlived both of his parents though and has children, so his work is done there really. The only truly sad deaths are those seen by a parent. The death of a child is terrible. But I guess not so bad if they're middle-aged and have children of their own.

Of course I'd be sad if DH died, I would be very unhappy to live without him. He's outlived both of his parents though and has children, so his work is done there really

Quite clearly you’ve never experience the death of a parent as a young child. Or as a wife.

And I don't think you can compare losing Grandparents and not needing time off with a husband losing his wife suddenly at 49,I lost my Grandparents when I was between the ages of 21 and 29 and it was sad but they were all 80+ and it was expected .

So when my Dh sister died at 41 her two oldest children found her they were 19 and 10 not only was it tragic for then but it was also incredibly traumatic ,it's not the same as me losing my Grandparents ,when they were in their mid to late 80,s not even comparable

It doesn't seem U at all to need some time out away from work after the death of a spouse. It may take him weeks to feel up to it again (hopefully won't lose his job in meantime).
I'm sure your DM isn't intentionally being uncaring but probably has never been in that situation.

I've always found my employer to be quite sympathetic when colleagues suffer a loss. And usually do what they can to accommodate time off and settling back in slowly. I think 6 weeks is the most any one has taken for a death in the family, within my department. Someone else was able to go PT for a year.

People are generally shit when someone dies. When my brother died, my boss asked if I was returning to work directly after the funeral! Luckily HR were more sympathetic and gave me a few days compassionate leave.

Quite clearly you’ve never experience the death of a parent as a young child. Or as a wife

No, I haven't. DH has, his background is utterly heartbreaking. But he's ok. Life endures does it not? I think I'm saying, what's the alternative? We go on. That's the point. Terrible things happen but to be destroyed by them makes their life pointless, I'm sure none of the departed want their loved ones to be consumed by grief. I know I'd want my family just to get on should I die prematurely.

@ShrikeAttack

Of course I'd be sad if DH died, I would be very unhappy to live without him. He's outlived both of his parents though and has children, so his work is done there really. The only truly sad deaths are those seen by a parent. The death of a child is terrible. But I guess not so bad if they're middle-aged and have children of their own.

He’s only outlived his parents because they died unusually young, though. The average age of death in the UK is 81. They missed out nearly half the average lifespan. And the fact that you consider your DH’s ‘work is done’ because he has children is frankly weird, unless you’re talking in purely animal terms in that he’s fulfilled his biological function and passed his genes on.

If DH and I died now (in our 40s), it would be ‘tragic’ for our 70something parents but especially for our young child.

He doesn’t have a job to go back to as he was made redundant, he has to start. A new job with new people on top of this and yes the kids have gone through trauma Of seeing their mum suddenly die

There's a difference between saying someone should go back to work, and asking if doing so would help them (routine, purpose, reason to be up and about early).

Generational thing may be the case.

I'm sorry for the loss of your friend.
Perhaps don't have this conversation with your mum. She is coming from a different place - probably thinking practically now the father is solely responsible for the children he must be both provider and carer and cannot afford to loose his job.
Her keenness for him to return to work won't be because she is cold and unsympathetic, it's because she is concerned for his and his childrens' future.
Just be there for him to offer practical help and a shoulder to cry on.

I agree with pps, your mum's comments could well be coming from a place of concern. She thinks it will help to return to work. She may be as upset as you. Calling her "dead inside" is unfair.

I assume she's not telling the widowed friend her opinion.

I’m going to avoid taking about this with her
But if she starts Up the subject with me what should I say ?
I don’t want to talk about this

She is quite cold on a lot of things like she things people with depression need to snap out of it and help themselves
When the ironic thing is, I’m sure she’s had a lot of episodes of undiagnosed depression

I think I’m going to have to avoid her and concentrate on supporting him and the kids

No, I haven't. DH has, his background is utterly heartbreaking. But he's ok. Life endures does it not

Depend on you definition of “ok”. I’’m ok. Life has endured. But I am definitely different, i am changed. My relationships are coloured by the experience if having someone drop dead on me. I don’t form friendships or close relationships as I am so used to internalising all my feelings I can’t talk about how I feel or what I need.

I have never spoken to anyone about that night. I still cry 40 odd years later. Because I was expected to “feel sad” but then get straight back to normal life. Helping my mum cope, raising siblings, making adult decisions.

But yes, I’m ok, and life has endured.

49 is very tragic, cannot imagine how he must feel, especially with kids. Everyone deals with grief differently, but it's not right to expect him to get straight back into his life as though he hasn't lost someone so immensely important to him. I hope youre ok too OP. I still remember the first loss I experienced, I was still at school, was called into the office to be told one of my close friends had taken their own life, then sent back to class. I was completely numb and broke down after about 2 weeks of repressing the feelings and carrying on at school like normal. Time for reflection and acceptance after a bereavement is so important.

A sudden death is going to bring up a lot of varied emotion in those left behind. Sometimes frustration or anger at the injustice of the situation. It's common to family members to fall out after the loss of someone because they turn these emotions on each other.

Don't fall into the same trap. Don't avoid your mum. This awful event has shown how fragile life can be. Tell your mum you love her instead.

Some people find it almost impossible to show or voice emotion. It can be misconstrued as cold. They simply find it too difficult and want things to return to normal, there is a sense of security in a normal daily routine.

A main cause of depression is internalizing difficult emotions and not being able to face or process trauma. The fact that your mum has suffered bouts of depression confirms she falls into this category. Try to treat her kindly and see beyond her brisk "no nonsense" front.

I think that @ ShrikeAttack has put it a bit more coldly and bluntly than most would, but there is a point to be made.

Fact is that we are all going to die, and none of us knows how and when that is. As I often say, “we’re all just a car crash away.”

It goes without saying that when someone dies it is devastating for those who are left behind, but life does go on, with or without those who are left behind, and the fact that one person is no longer part of that life doesn’t mean it should stop for everyone else.

I have actually had these conversations with my family because I’ve been a bit closer to death than most, in fact I have technically been dead when I had a cardiac arrest last summer. And for me, I don’t want to think or hope that my family would mourn my loss for an unspecified period of time. I can’t prevent them from being sad, but I don’t want a sad maudlin funeral with people sobbing and crying, I’d rather they just went out for a meal at my favourite restaurant. And I wouldn’t want my DP to spend the rest of his life grieving for me as some would expect. Obviously I wouldn’t think he would move on straightaway, but I’ll be dead and not coming back, there should come a point when he does meet someone else. He probably has another 30/35 years of his life left, I would find the idea of his being alone for that period far more tragic than my death.

*I think that @ ShrikeAttack has put it a bit more coldly and bluntly than most would, but there is a point to be made.

Fact is that we are all going to die, and none of us knows how and when that is. As I often say, “we’re all just a car crash away.”

It goes without saying that when someone dies it is devastating for those who are left behind, but life does go on, with or without those who are left behind, and the fact that one person is no longer part of that life doesn’t mean it should stop for everyone else*

Nobody is saying that. But unexpected or early death isn’t just a “bit sad” to be shrugged off. Lives change, emotionally, practically, financially.

Shrike seems to think that unless it’s a child, a death is nothing more than feeling a bit sad, then cracking on with life as before. For elderly or expected deaths, perhaps. For sudden deaths or those with young families, it has a huge impact that goes way beyond simple sadness.

There is a massive difference between carrying on as if nothing has happened, and acknowledging the huge loss, grieving, and moving on.

Personally I think grief counselling should be mandatory for all children who have lost a parent. They are often ignored or expected to adapt, often mask grief so as not to upset adults, and very rarely given the chance to talk about their loss.

I have actually had these conversations with my family because I’ve been a bit closer to death than most, in fact I have technically been dead when I had a cardiac arrest last summer. And for me, I don’t want to think or hope that my family would mourn my loss for an unspecified period of time. I can’t prevent them from being sad, but I don’t want a sad maudlin funeral with people sobbing and crying, I’d rather they just went out for a meal at my favourite restaurant. And I wouldn’t want my DP to spend the rest of his life grieving for me as some would expect. Obviously I wouldn’t think he would move on straightaway, but I’ll be dead and not coming back, there should come a point when he does meet someone else. He probably has another 30/35 years of his life left, I would find the idea of his being alone for that period far more tragic than my death.

And you're obviously entitled to your view, @AlternativePerspective and I can imagine that your cardiac arrest brought it home to you sharply but by definition, by the time people are holding your funeral, you won't be around to care, so it's fundamentally up to the people you've left behind to decide how and how long to mourn you. I don't think it's fair to try to lay down the law before your death for something that will fundamentally not concern you.

Plus I don't think anyone is suggesting that the OP's friend's widower can or should mourn for years, never remarry, or stay out of work for a long period -- it was only a week and a half after his wife's sudden death that the OP's mother started saying he should be getting back to work, which is no time at all.

DM (early 80s) is a life carries on person.
Dad went out to work one morning and that evening a policeman came to the door to tell us that he'd died of a heart attack in the street. He was 53. I was 11. I had two days off school and was back in at the end of the week. I did the morning of my secondary school induction before being picked up at lunchtime to go to his funeral.

It was a sensible approach. I had 6 hours a day of "normal". We grieved, we talked it through, but some compartmentalisation is not necessarily a bad thing. Structure is important to many people. Part of sending me to school was forcing DM to get up and out of the house each morning (somthing I appreciate more this side of March 2020!)

It's a valid approach but it's not one size fits all. Grief is the process of learning to live without a loved one. People can get stuck at any stage of grief.

If she starts Up the subject with me what should I say ?

Try to change the subject.
Is she actually in direct contact with the widower and saying or doing things that might upset him? If not, then let her opinion be what it is. You don't have to have an opinion on her view.

I'm quite sure his 3 young children need him around more than he needs to be going to work. How insensitive of your Mum.

If she brings it up again I would say to her that the children will be needing him. If she continues I would tell her plainly that she is upsetting you and you don't wish to talk about it any more with her.

My parents were a bit like this when my partner passed away, he passed on the Monday afternoon & after I had taken ds to school the morning after I called at their house as I couldn't bear to be on my own, their attitude was what do you expect us to do about it? No hugs, no listening to me, I was devastated, I had not expected him to die age 34 even though he was very ill, I thought he would pull through. Having arrived at the hospital to be taken in to a room & a doctor telling me & his dad that he was going to die within the next few hours was the worst thing I have ever gone through & I needed support & comfort.