When your Year 11 doesn't know what he wants to do, what do you do?

[MidnightVelvet9]

Haven't posted on here for ages, apologies if I'm in the wrong topic.

So my lovely intelligent nerdy Year 11 boy doesn't know what he wants to do as a career. He wants to do A Levels in chemistry, history and computer science and has a vague idea that he will go to uni but no idea what field he would work in or what he would do with a degree.

It would be difficult to afford uni for him, if he had a firm career in mind that he felt strongly about e.g. nursing or teaching then we would find a way for him to do it, but going to uni and coming out unemployed with £50k debt and still no idea what he wants is not ideal. Plus if he doesn't know what course he wants to do at uni we can't look at the eligibility criteria to make sure his A Levels match their entry requirements.

I've encouraged him to see the careers advisor at school and tried talking with him about possible jobs/industries he might be interested in but he just gets defensive and angry, probably because he feels under pressure but has no idea what to do. If I try to talk to him about it now he just says no and angrily closes the convo down before it starts. So I've stopped trying.

His dad (who I left years ago) has put it into his head that apprenticeships are for 'thick' people who can't go to uni, so he's not remotely interested in an apprenticeship as he now considers it beneath him.

I know its his life and I'm trying to not put him under pressure, but I'm out of ideas. Do I just leave him to make his own decisions?

Any advice would be great please :)

Just let him do A levels in the subjects that interest him and give him space to breathe.

And if he does want to go to uni then stop projecting your anxieties. As a single parent (assuming you don’t have a new partner) his maintenance loan will be based on your income alone, student debt isn’t real debt, it’s a graduate tax.

He's not going to leave university with £50k debt. Look at MSE Martin Lewis's seminar about this on YouTube.

In exactly the same boat with my Year 11 DS. He wants to do Maths, Physics and History at A Level with a vague idea of University but no clue career wise.

I'm just leaving him be and letting him follow his own path.

I'm 38 and I still have no clue what I want to be when I grow up 😏

Relax.

Let him do the subjects he enjoys.

Take the full loans available.

Ds is Y12 & hasn't the faintest idea what he wants to do, up to now his ideas are being a train driver, something in environmental sciences, a journalist or something in politics. He is working hard at his A levels & personally I would be happy if he got a job as a train driver, even for a few years to build up some money behind him & then if he wanted to go to university he could rather than go at 18 & struggle for money. Your ds will eventually make his mind up, his best idea is to pick A levels that give him a chance at a broad range of degrees should he choose to go to university or a range of jobs if he doesn't.

I am wary of careers advice coming from teachers and careers advisers who have only ever been within the field of education.

Employability and the ability to pay for the life you aspire is highly competitive in the private sector. I see why his a level choices worry you and why it is good to think more long term than simply choosing favourite subjects which further down the line you find have closed career doors prematurely.

My advice is there are a couple of additional options post 16.

Core maths is a good option to go alongside his 3 a levels. (Check uni admissions)
A well selected EPQ can be helpful if a levels are not perfectly aligned
And if post a level your son chooses an unconnected route there are lots of access courses to higher education and foundation degrees tailored to mature students. So with some additional hard work nothing is out of reach if he is willing to put in the graft.

"He wants to do A Levels in chemistry, history and computer science and has a vague idea that he will go to uni"

There you go - he does know what he wants to do.

My dd has just started yr12 and was exactly the same. Then she started 6th form and has changed her mind on what subject she wants to do at Uni and where she wants to go. It's fine, it's normal for this stage.

And yes, at this age they do need to make their own decisions.

His dad is talking nonsense about apprenticeships though. For example I am a chartered accountant. Earnings potential in my field could go to hundreds of thousands. My company takes school leavers with three a-levels (any three, as long as not general studies, we recommend people pick what they like so they get good grades) and trains them up. We pay the training, wages and in five years they come out as a chartered accountant.
If the same student went to uni and did accounting then came to us to get the same professional qualification it'd be three years of uni plus three years with us, £50k of debt and no salary or professional work experience for the first three years. Our apprentices get promoted pretty quickly and I've seen a few of them buy their own flats and houses even before qualifying (I went to uni and I definitely did not do that, we are in the south east).
I think your son's plan around his A-levels is good but before going to uni I would really recommend looking more into apprenticeship routes - what careers this is possible for and whether they interest him. Local employers tend to have open evenings for sixth formers and attend careers events at schools.

Hi I'm a careers adviser and firstly don't worry as there are plenty of year 11s who don't know what they want to do long term so it's very normal. It's young to decide but if he knows what subjects he wants to study then that's a good starting point. Based on the A Levels you said he would be able to get on most degree programmes. The key for people who are unsure of a career path is to keep the A Levels varied so it keeps various doors open and he has done that with his subject choices.
If he won't see the careers adviser then try and get him to research different job profiles online as this can give some ideas. There are also some career based quizzes online where he can answer questions about his skills, interests etc and it will give him some career matches. To be honest I would just relax about it now and over the 2 years of his A Levels he will naturally start to lean towards a particular subject and gain some clarity on what he wants to do.

I still didn’t know what I wanted to do when I was at University! I did three essay based A levels and then studied Political Science at university because I liked the sound of it. Back in the 90s it was more important where you went, don’t know if that’s still the case, but I went to Bristol Uni which was great fun.
In the second year they start running career fairs and various firms would come in and woo students. It was brilliant! Didn’t pay for dinner in weeks as they would come in and put on these evenings with canapés and wine. I went to loads with my housemates, even companies I had no interest in joining (because - free food). I fondly remember Mars doing a great talk and having a table groaning with Mars products that we were just allowed to help ourselves to.
I started going to a few law presentations as my housemate was interested and it sounded good so I looked into it, did a couple of summer vacation schemes and that was it. Then a couple more years study (paid for by the firm that I was going to work at) and job done.

It is completely normal for kids-boys particularly- to have no idea what they want to do. What's the panic?
I won't be rushing any of mine to go to uni unless they have a good idea why they are going and a plan for work etc in the future.
If they don't know what they want to do, they can work for a year or two. Grow up. Travel a bit. Find out what they like.
I'm a nurse and there are so many mature students for that. It's not like if you don't decide in school that's it for the rest of your life!

A few thoughts:

• Don't consider student loans as normal debt, they are more of a graduate tax that you only pay back if you earn enough
• Degree apprenticeships are a different kettle of fish to apprenticeships started at 16.

He knows what A levels he wants to do, that is all he really needs right now. I would leave other worries until after June. However I too am (slightly) concerned about the mix of subjects. They are all strong in themselves but potentially they don't support each other very well.

To do Chemistry at university he would normally need maths or another science, I think. I don't know whether CS would be sufficient.

Many CS degrees like you to have done maths as well.

You say 'intelligent', does that mean expecting a host of 7+ grades and aiming for a 'top' university? If so he might be ruling out a lot of courses by doing disparate subjects. You could check requirements by looking up admission criteria for various places & courses yourself.

otoh 3 strong grades is better than doing other subjects because he feels he should, and then not doing so well.

Do his hobbies and interests not give any idea where he might be headed?

ps. there is a difference between 'leave him to make his own decisions' and 'help make sure he has all information to make an informed decision'. I would be trying to ensure he understands what limitations there are based on his A level choices so e.g. he doesn't turn round in 18 months realising that he can't do Chemistry without a supporting science (if that is the case).

If I were him I’d probably do chemistry, physics, maths and computer science and keep history as an interest. If he’s intelligent, those A levels will leave a lot of doors open in science, medicine, computing, teaching, engineering etc.

That combination of subjects may make it difficult to find a course to that takes him. He wouldn’t be able to do sciences because he is either missing maths or other sciences.

He may not be strong enough for humanities either with only one humanities A level.

He could possibly study law with that mix or go into a degree by adding a foundation course.

If he chose a 4 a level, what would he choose?

Oz But that is 4 A levels (which these days only the top, top kids do). Maths is only a good idea if he is at least a grade 7 and enjoys it. Dropping history almost forces him down a science route, keeping an essay subject keeps written skills up and makes it much more viable for him to do a raft of humanities. Presumably he isn't set on sciences given his choices.

(Geography would go well with Chemistry & History as a bridge between them. Maths would go well with anything but only if capable.)

If your income is low he can afford uni as well as anyone else, that's a strength of the loan system. Repayments are low until it can be afforded. If you earn more then you will need to contribute so that's more of an issue.

He should apply to uni via ucas AND apply to any degree apprenticeships he is interested in in year 13. Right now just get him to look widely at careers and courses - have a slot with the careers adviser - look on websites and start dreaming. No final choices now. A plan will come together don't worry.

Oh it’s changed now has it @TeenPlusTwenties? Most people I knew at school who were maths/science types did 4 A Levels (adding in further maths or some kind off extra science) as they were complementary. That was 25 years ago though!

Oz Yes it has reverted to how it used to be. With the dropping of AS levels, places have mainly reverted to doing 3, or 3 plus an EPQ. 4 is most common as always for those doing Maths & Further Maths.

You both need to read up on how student loans work - most people don't pay it all back, you only do if you're an above average earner for a sustained period.

He also needs to forget the idea that apprenticeships are for 'thick' people as you can do degree level apprenticeships which also mean that an employer is likely to pay his tuition fees, which means he could get to his early 20s with a degree and several years experience with an employer and no student debt, which is a great position to be in.

And anyway, some of the most successful people I know started apprenticeships in trades like construction or motor mechanic at 16 and now own successful businesses.

But his current A level choices, especially if he can add maths are a good start for higher education, however he approaches it.

@MidnightVelvet9 your DS sounds like a pretty normal year 11 and I think you need to take a deep breath and relax a bit. Most don’t know what they want to do and find it hard to see past GCSEs, especially this year. Your DS actually does have a plan, it’s vague but sounds fairly sensible.

I get the impression you don’t value higher education unless it’s vocational. I’m afraid the world has changed and most careers require a degree these days. I spent years in recruitment covering roles that in theory (ie in the past) had been successfully done by non graduates but a degree - any grade, any subject - became the minimum standard in the late 1990s.

You need to think again about student loans too - it’s not a debt in the sense that it affects your ability to get credit; it’s effectively a higher rate of tax if and when you earn above a certain level.

PPs are correct that there are some good apprenticeships available these days too, some of which can lead onto degrees. However, the good ones will be competitive so if your DS isn’t sure about that vocation it’s unlikely he’ll be successful.

Once he’s in sixth form, most good schools and colleges work closely with the year 12s to help them make good decisions. I think you should let him get through his GCSEs and start discussing with him again in year 12.

My brother did Maths, Physics & Computer Studies at A level & then studied Electrical Engineering at University, he first worked as an electrical engineer at Network Rail when he graduated but then became more interested in IT & moved to Royal Mail as a solutions architect where he worked for several years before being head hunted by IBM where his job took him all over the world before again being head hunted back to Royal Mail where he has been for nearly 10 years & has moved up the career ladder being promoted several times.

Encourage him to do subjects he enjoys. I don't think it's reasonable to expect children to choose a career at that age... they change their minds too often and don't even know what's out there.

Subjects he enjoys he will be best in.. or will at least try harder

Your son is far too young for you to be piling on the pressure like this. You shouldn't be doing so at any age, really, it's a personal decision of his that you need to support rather than try to lead him on. Don't be 'that' mum.

A few things:

1. You certainly can 'afford' uni. Your son will be eligible for a full tuition fee loan regardless of your income. He will be eligible for a partial maintenance loan as well, this one will be dependent on your income. He will be a couple of grand short of his living costs if you're well-off. You can either top it off or he can get a part-time job to cover the rest - many (possibly most) students do. He will only start paying back what he owes when he has reached the salary threshold, and only then a small amount - I believe it's currently 9% of all earnings over £26K. So if he was earning £30K, he'd be paying back something like £360 a year (£30 a month). If he is out of work, he doesn't pay anything back for that time. Hence why it is more like a tax.

2. The subjects you listed are a solid set of subjects. His aim should be to do well. He only needs to choose specific subjects if he wants to do something specific (doctor, research scientist). Most degrees are offered based on grades rather than subjects.

3. A minimum of a 2:1 degree is required for most decent graduate schemes. There are obviously other ways to get into work, but this is a good route. I joined a company as an administrator age 22 on £17K, graduates joined on £25K on the grad scheme (ironically I was a graduate but didn't know there was a grad scheme).

4. Apprenticeships or degree apprenticeships are also a good way to go, but as above, he doesn't need to decide yet. Your actions will backfire. Support, don't push (and don't convince yourself you are 'supporting' when you're really 'pushing').

I think that at his age there's a lot to be said for doing what you enjoy and seeing where it takes you. There are lots of graduate schemes for example that require 'a degree' without specifying which one, so even if he doesn't end up wanting to work in that field, he will be well equipped to get a job or onto a scheme.

You say paying for university will be difficult. It won't. It's perfectly possible to get through on the loans they're entitled to (make sure you know how much he gets then you can choose accommodation accordingly) and then you need to stop thinking about him being '50k in debt'. Student debt isn't taken into account for any kind of credit check. You only pay it back if you're earning over a certain amount, and then it's taken from your wage before you even see it. It's written off after a certain amount of time.

It's the best value loan he will ever, ever get.

Leave it for the time being. He's got another three years until uni and he hasn't even done his GCSEs yet! Obviously he can't shut down at every difficult conversation but a) it's not something he needs any extra pressure about yet and b) this is his journey to take.

The pressure schools put on kids this age is pretty immense and rightly or wrongly he's probably expected to go to uni if his grades are passable. Finance is different for everyone but student loan is there. As long as he doesn't blow his money and expect you to bail him out every week with your own savings most students can get by on their loan. I understand this isn't always the case; my parents had to fork some extra out of their own pockets and I will forever be grateful to them for it. If you really are unable to do this and find a way around it (loan, grants, bursaries) you are NOT a failure. Saving for education should ideally be done from day one, but your situation isn't any of our business. If he does go to uni, at the end of the day the vast majority of the debt will be his to pay back, therefore it is his decision to make. Pressuring him/worrying about money will do more long-term damage than letting him make some healthy mistakes and have new experiences along the way.

A uni degree is (arguably, lol) still very valuable in the job market, regardless of the subject, and is equally important for the life experience it brings. New friends, adventures, independence and mistakes all sounds very cliche but he will most likely gain something out of uni if he wants to go. If not he will find another path. I'm sure he'll be grateful for your support either way (or at least will be down the line) but that's all he needs when the time comes.

I'm a 20something postgrad who still has no idea what I want to do with my life, so do with that what you will haha. My mum gently advised me to go to uni as she thought it would be right for me but stressed that it was ultimately my decision. She's told me since then that she was equally scared and had no idea if she was doing the right thing - all she could do was give (gentle) guidance, respect my choices, and be there if I needed to come back with my tail between my legs because I was a scared young adult with 0 life experience.

It's worth addressing his views on apprenticeships etc though. I know you don't share his opinion but it's a little concerning and could lead him to form nasty assumptions about people and their apparent worth. This year more than ever has proved we'd be absolutely screwed without trades and other fields he probably considers himself too good for.

As long as he chooses subjects he enjoys and will do his best in he is fine. He is so young and still learning, and probably stressing out a lot behind the scenes. Let him be. You clearly come from a place of concern but THERE IS TIME. He's 15.