We do need a proper conversation about obesity and metabolic disorder

[BecomeStronger]

I've been doing some reading about immunity, which affects not only our ability to fight a nasty virus but also things like cancer and heart disease. This is not news, but the stats for the increased impact, of so many different conditions, on those who are obese are truly shocking.

Of course, people who are already suffering should be treated by whatever means are available but isn't it time that the causes were addressed properly?

By which I absolutely don't mean telling fat people it's all their own fault, it's far more complex than that, but we need to move on from a place where you're not even allowed to mention weight, especially in the context of health.

It's simply not true that it's possible to be obese and fit/healthy and even if an obese person appears healthy, it's a ticking timebomb. (certainly it's true that being fat and active is better than fat and sedentary, but that's not the same thing).

IMO we need a massive public health campaign, with the necessary support in place, to address obesity in the same way that we addressed smoking. Of course it won't go away, it won't happen overnight and it won't be easy (like smoking) but something has to be done.

At the moment there seems to be outrage if even doctors suggest to their patients that lifestyle changes are necessary and yet this is by far the most effective "treatment" there is for so many of the illnesses linked to metabolic disorder.

The trouble is, if you have that sort of campaign, it gets hiweoed down as 'fat shaming'

As Cancer Research UK found out when they ran one pointing out (entirely factually) that obesity is a major risk factor for many cancers

Yes, I understand that's why it hasn't happened up to now, but doesn't that need to change? Or do we just accept a situation where life expectancy and more importantly, quality of later life is in decline?

What are you talking about by not being allowed to mention weight and health. It's talked about constantly. By people on here, medical professionals, the general public and on social media.

Are you fat op?

It is mentioned a lot, usually followed by numerous posts saying to shouldn't be.

We have heard quite a bit about this, there have been TV ads and also there are weight loss plans for those with Type 2 diabetes, free gym memberships and NHS plans for weight loss online...

Also recently they have decided to ban junk food ads as well.

The analogy with smoking is entirely accurate. We need to equate sedentary lifestyle with smoking today. Too many people sit all day and take very little exercise.

It’s complex. Our society basically pushes people towards obesity, in all manner of ways. But then alternately shames obesity, or tries to pretend that being obese and unfit is something to be proud of.

The pride is wrong. So is the shaming.

On a personal level, people need to take responsibility for their health, and actually make long-lasting lifestyle change.

Don't refer to people being fat. Refer to people as having excess body fat because that's what it is. I have excess body fat. I've still got bones and hair and fingernails and a heart and a brain but I'm not called any of those things so why is it ok to call people fat?

I agree with you, OP. We need to have a more mature conversation about risk factors and people taking responsibility for their own wellbeing in general. As Edith says, these sorts of conversations do lead to shrill accusations of fat-shaming, but I think we all need to accept the truth, uncomfortable as it may be.

Everybody knows being fat is unhealthy.
Everybody knows eating to much makes you fat.
Food is so delicious though, we just want to eat it. Eating and cooking healthier smaller meals for many, many people just isn't appealing. Likewise exercise.
Even with type two diabetes, losing weight helps enormously but people prefer to eat the food and just deal with the diabetes.

I heard a study on the radio once about dieting and people who had successfully lost weight and kept it off. Study found that actually, they were happier when they were fat as the constant watching what they ate and denying themselves food they wanted was so draining. Just one study though, so feel free to criticise.
I can certainly relate to it myself though. I am permanently on the 5-2 diet, the fast days are fucking miserable.

@BecomeStronger

It is mentioned a lot, usually followed by numerous posts saying to shouldn't be.

Are you fat op? Why are you ignoring my question.

I'm also not sure mumsnet posts are an what you should be basing your opinion on regarding whether conversations are happening. Perhaps look at research, public health policy and practices within health care.

It's simply not true that it's possible to be obese and fit/healthy

Of course it is.
It’s also possible to be thin and unhealthy.
Obesity is one risk factor that’s focused on excessively.

Rather than looking at bmi we need to look at activity levels, mental health, other measures of health and not body weight in isolation. You just can’t tell who is healthy by looking at them.

@KenDodd

I was mildly depressed when I was obese.

I lost 6 stone and kept it off. I’m still mildly depressed.

The difference being that I now use exercise as an antidepressant, instead of fatty food. I reckon that’s better!

I’d suggest looking at rebelfit for an accurate and helpful conversation about obesity.

The main issue for me is how it is addressed as any remotely sharing language would tend to push people towards eating more as eating is often linked with emotions. So an approach that can address the WHYs of overeating would be vital to address as well.

Unlike smoking, which there is no reason to do that I can think of other than preference, people excuse obesity for myriad different reasons. It is genetic, it's medical, it's emotional, it's a byproduct of a different issue...
I'm not fat because I have a medical condition, although that possibly contributed to it. I'm fat because I lack will power and motivation to be slimmer. If you ran a national campaign to tell people to lose weight, the majority would tell you to is impossible because x, y or z. Some extrinsic reasons to lose weight are not as relevant in today's society (lovely clothes are available, social media shows a spectrum of size, there are lots of people overweight, 14-16 is often touted as not overweight on MN...) so if the only reason to lose weight is health and you aren't unwell, can touch your toes/run up a hill/swim a mile, why bother?

I really want to hear some evidence that you can be obese and healthy. That just seems very unlikely!

You just can’t tell who is healthy by looking at them

Well yes, this is true. But obesity is a massive risk factor in many, many diseases. If you are obese, you are far more likely to have health problems than someone who is a healthy weight. Why are people so eager to deny this, it baffles me?

“ IMO we need a massive public health campaign, with the necessary support in place, to address obesity in the same way that we addressed smoking.”

These efforts are in place, probably underfunded, but they do exist.

@PaddyF0dder

The analogy with smoking is entirely accurate. We need to equate sedentary lifestyle with smoking today. Too many people sit all day and take very little exercise.

It’s complex. Our society basically pushes people towards obesity, in all manner of ways. But then alternately shames obesity, or tries to pretend that being obese and unfit is something to be proud of.

The pride is wrong. So is the shaming.

On a personal level, people need to take responsibility for their health, and actually make long-lasting lifestyle change.

I think it's more complex than smoking. Which is a choice and an addiction. But yiu don't need to continue to smoke to live. You also don't smoke or have the effects of smoking from health conditions and medications for example.

But I'm not going to waste my lovey Saturday morning on here with a group of people who think fat people are the scum of the earth (don't pretend you don't all the pp's) I just hope that you don't have to experience the complex physical and mental health issues and the side effects of medication which lead to weight gain. It's very easy to judge when you don't know what it's like. The thing I can be greatful for is although I'm fat which is obviously a moral crime I'm not one other the many pp's lacking in understanding an empathy.

Why does it matter if I'm fat?

As it happens I'm not but I've spent the summer researching a serious health issue of my husband's (we nearly lost him) and have been shocked to learn how much of it was (probably) preventable and that actually there are some fairly straight forward things he can do that make a huge difference to his recovery and future prognosis. He's had a nasty shock and will do what's needed but how much better would it have been (for him and for the NHS) if he'd done it first?

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0004sbj
There was a really interesting conversation between, I think, Jane Garvey and Sofia Hagen on Womans Hour that encapsulates the difficulties in addressing this issue.

@NeonIcedcoffee why are you pestering OP to declare her weight? What does that have to do with her opinion at all? Oh wait, you're one of those people who thinks fat people can't have an opinion aren't you.

I actually disagree with the OP but her own weight has bugger all to do with this discussion.

I am a fat person trying to lose weight. I’ve been a size 16 since I was 16, not baby weight or boredom eating. I am currently a 14 and 12 in bottoms.
What absolutely drives me bonkers is the health professions standard approach to talking to fat people about weight. There is not one type of fat person. Someone who gradually gains a stone a year should be treated differently to someone who gains a lot of weight in a short space of time. We tailor mental health care to individuals, why not weight loss advice? One approach won’t work for everyone.
The only thing that has worked for me is fasting. This doesn’t seem to be endorsed by the NHS or by individuals. So sick of people telling me it’s unhealthy to not eat until 1pm, the same people who have been gently nudging you about your weight for years actually don’t like it when you start losing weight.
Also we need to get away from the healthy swap thing. Eating is an addiction. You don’t tell an alcoholic to swap a midday beer for a Gin and tonic. The market for ‘healthy’ snacks is huge, as Big Bertha tucks into her eighth cereal bar of the day and wonders why the scales aren’t budging. What we need to teach is that our current routine of meal, snack, meal, snack, meal, snack is what is causing all this. People need to go cold turkey and eat less. But there’s no money in that.

I was wondering if Covid would galvanise discussion about obesity, as it is such a huge risk factor for ending up seriously ill/dead.

Adults being obese is fair enough, it's their choice, but when I see obese kids it makes me angry, they are so obviously being let down by parents and government cuts to exercise facilities (playing fields and so on).