We do need a proper conversation about obesity and metabolic disorder

[BecomeStronger]

I've been doing some reading about immunity, which affects not only our ability to fight a nasty virus but also things like cancer and heart disease. This is not news, but the stats for the increased impact, of so many different conditions, on those who are obese are truly shocking.

Of course, people who are already suffering should be treated by whatever means are available but isn't it time that the causes were addressed properly?

By which I absolutely don't mean telling fat people it's all their own fault, it's far more complex than that, but we need to move on from a place where you're not even allowed to mention weight, especially in the context of health.

It's simply not true that it's possible to be obese and fit/healthy and even if an obese person appears healthy, it's a ticking timebomb. (certainly it's true that being fat and active is better than fat and sedentary, but that's not the same thing).

IMO we need a massive public health campaign, with the necessary support in place, to address obesity in the same way that we addressed smoking. Of course it won't go away, it won't happen overnight and it won't be easy (like smoking) but something has to be done.

At the moment there seems to be outrage if even doctors suggest to their patients that lifestyle changes are necessary and yet this is by far the most effective "treatment" there is for so many of the illnesses linked to metabolic disorder.

@midgebabe and your response highlights the problem. It is never one size fits all, if we were talking about depression for example would your response remain the same? That for example you get up every morning and face a long day etc but you are fine...

@PaddyF0dder

The analogy with smoking is entirely accurate. We need to equate sedentary lifestyle with smoking today. Too many people sit all day and take very little exercise.

It’s complex. Our society basically pushes people towards obesity, in all manner of ways. But then alternately shames obesity, or tries to pretend that being obese and unfit is something to be proud of.

The pride is wrong. So is the shaming.

On a personal level, people need to take responsibility for their health, and actually make long-lasting lifestyle change.

This sums up my views very well.

Unlimited bacon, eggs, chicken, steak, lamb etc with full fat Mayo and butter but no bread, rice, pasta etc. I guarantee you won't be hungry. You may lose weight. Your metabolic health will improve.

Well, your metabolic rate might improve but it sounds for a recipe for bowel cancer to me!

I think we need to start talking more about childhood obesity. It starts for so many there. Some of it is lack of care or laziness but some of it is also lack of education around nutrition.

I know a child in my DDs reception class. They're all currently four years old. This child is massive. Mum is big too, Dad isn't.

We're were talking generally at drop off the other day about how fussy children can be with food, and this child's Dad pipes up almost proudly that he 'can't get a vegetable' in them and then goes to to say he's not worried as she eats 'more than him' and has three, yes three breakfasts before school.

I've n own these parents a while, this isn't a lack of care. They're nice, have good jobs so not unintelligent. Their child is adored. Has no additional needs, and is otherwise well. But why, why would you allow that? No veg at all, and three breakfasts at four years old. No wonder she's so big, poor child. I don't get it.

If I wanted to stop smoking, I can stop and it’s done for a day.
I can’t decide right I’ve had enough of being obese, I recognise it’s risky, I won’t be obese tomorrow.

If I want to quit smoking I call the stop smoking service and they offer me nicotine replacement therapy and I avoid smoky environments and people who smoke so I’m not tempted

Unfortunately I think you are doing exactly what you are complaining people do with obesity here.
Giving up smoking is not easy.* And even having given it up, something can set it off again. I'm told that medically someone who has given up smoking is referred to as "not currently a smoker" because they are far more likely to take it up again at a stressful point often-even 50 years after they stopped, than someone who has never smoked. The craving for the addiction never goes away.

*no, I'm not a smoker

For me I know I'm podgy. The main reason behind this is I have a dreadful relationship with food. I don't eat huge amounts at any point, but I snack loads. I can easily not eat all day, but then I can polish off a packet of biscuits without really thinking about it, or a couple of handful of nuts, etc. It's as much habit as anything else.
Could I change? Probably. I'll try it tomorrow :D

My parents were strict three meals a day (with very little sugar) and no snacks, so it's not about upbringing.

I was obese for a long time, I stopped going to the GP completely because they didn't talk about anything else, I missed smear tests because the nurse made me feel so low.

There has to be another way, obviously education and support on weight loss is essential. But everyone has the right not to feel scared to go to the doctors.

I am now a healthy weight and it's a real eye opener, society definitely treats me as more worthy now. I think if you have never been there it's impossible to know just how much negativity is there simply for existing.

I was, and still am terrified to take up space in the world in many ways.

As a dependent drinker who has given up, I really, really, really sympathize with people who overeat.

For me, every time I go to the supermarket, it's like going into a maze made out of boxes and bottles of alcohol, especially this time of year. End of every single aisle - gin, sherry, beer, wine. All the adverts this time of year show attractive, slim families laughing uproariously at tables covered in food and wine glasses, all apparently effortlessly moderating their intake of wine and roast potatoes.

I imagine it's much the same for people who struggle with junk food? I don't notice it as much because I'm not a binge eater but even I can see the shelves are stuffed with it; 24 packets of crisps, confectionery and fizzy drinks everywhere you look, billboards the size of houses by the side of the road featuring tiny people with gorgeous teeth and skin smiling fondly at a Maccers.

It's all LIES. We're bombarded with messages to buy booze and food of no nutritional value which contains the magic salt/fat/sugar combo which both are designed to hijack our reward system and cause addiction and then beaten with a stick for not being able to moderate

I think it's a miracle so many people do manage to moderate in the face of such an onslaught. I guess some people's brains are more sensitive to dopamine changes than others and if that's you, you truly have my sympathies. No one wants to feel this way. It's so shit and hard.

There was an interesting programme on TV where the presenters had their metabolism checked. It turned out that one presenter could eat anything she liked and stay thin, whilst another would gain weight on the same food.
It isn't a case of just 'eat less, exercise more,' it's more complex than that.
The one time I lost weight (I lost 17kg) I only achieved it by lots of fast walking and being hungry.
If I want to lose weight again, I have to balance my enjoyment of food against the misery of being hungry.

This is just a detail, but people are confusing "being healthy" with "being able to do a sport". There are plenty of sports where the participants actually are not healthy at all, on both ends of the scale. Some female gymnasts are so thin their periods stop, and that is not good for them. Some shot putters are so overweight they have serious blood pressure issues. And so forth.

I like @Hangingover 's post!

The reason fat people feel 'hated' reading a thread like this is the number of people saying 'you' or 'they' when referring to fat people, and opining that it's 'their own fault'.

We have a society that makes healthy eating difficult.
We have a health service gives little assistance until people are morbidly obese.
We are blinkered about other people's bodies not working the same way our own does.
We treat fat people as though they are the problem, rather than the environment we live in.

Repeatedly ignoring the experience of people who can't lose weight seems unhelpful.

I've joined slimming world, and found that I already follow their eating plan. So I won't be losing weight by switching to 'healthier eating'. Just by severely restricting the amount. I only eat two meals a day.

I have been eating low carb for around 25 years now. I rarely eat red meat or processed meats and mainly eat chicken and fish plus green vegetables. I eat some carbs but treat them with caution. I have not developed gall stones and my bowed function is unproblematic (was problematic when eating carbs).

Although experiential accounts are valid, I am not aware that health research literature associates reduction of carbohydrates per se with increased disease incidence. OTOH, high carb diets (so called normal western diets) are strongly associated with increased disease, including type 2 diabetes, PCOS etc. Modern diseases that fit with modern dietary consumption. This is significant because high carb diets are touted as healthy.

Supermarkets have entire aisles that are irrelevant if you low carb - cereal aisle, bread aisle, crisp aisle, pasta, rice etc. Fresh meats and vegetables - done.

If you have a 'problem' with cereal (high carb) for breakfast and sandwiches (high carb) for lunch and are overweight it must be due to the takeaways and snacks you eat in the evening. Shame on you. Because they contain fat. If you are overweight but don't confess to unhealthy eating you must be lying because there is no way that your'e not. You're probably too drunk to know what you are shoving in your gob. Double shame on you.

But you need to look at how fats and carbs are metabolised. Eating fat doesn't make you fat. Eating fat won't release insulin. Eating carbs will. Because ... biology.

Eating processed carbs makes profits for the food industry. Cheap (given the infrastructure) tasty and addictive. Vials of injectable insulin are so much less attractive and so much more identifiably harmful. But you don't have to do this. The body produces the 'drug' under certain stimuli. So you just have to deliver the stimuli. And you can add vitamins to your stimulus to Trojan horse them all the better.

It might make the consumer overweight and increase disease, but hey, only the greedy consumer suffers because there is consumer choice.

So, to sum up, it's all your fault.

Have a nice day

[quote Arosadra]rebelfit.co.uk/blog/2020/if-diets-dont-work-how-do-you-lose-weigh[/quote]
Where this falls down (and this is my only issue with that post), specifically the acceptance aspect, is that you don't see many fit, active 18 stone 60 year olds.

Less extreme but I was a fit, active 11.5 stone 30-something. I'm now a 10st4 51 year old and my weight has crept up a few times and I've has to nip it in the bud because the joint pain becomes unbearable and I find myself struggling with hills. I would like to weigh a little less but I'm not willing to maintain the necessary habits to keep it off, right now.

For those who resent doctors bringing up weight at every opportunity, the problem is it absolutely underpins almost all health related issues. I can’t think of a single issue that wouldn’t be improved by an obese or overweight person losing weight. It affects everything from drug dosage, to how easy it is to find a vein, to how difficult surgery is. I’ve been in situations where we’ve got a patient with a tumour which would be reasonably straightforward to remove in a patient of normal weight, but becomes a different ball game in someone who’s obese. Not only does their obesity mean they are more likely to get cancer, it also makes it harder to treat and the patient less likely to survive.

What @DazzlePaintedBattlePants

It’s like getting annoyed at a builder for pointing out a massive crack along a supporting wall in your house.

@DazzlePaintedBattlePants I can’t think of a single issue that wouldn’t be improved by an obese or overweight person losing weight.'

Urm - I go to the doctor after being in a cast for a broken wrist. The point was for them to make sure I could grip ok etc. They went on at me for 10 mins about my weight. All of which was not related in the slightest!

There's the issue of which is the cause and which the symptom.
Poor parenting
Stress/mental health issues.
Inflammation
Pain
Inactivity
Poor work life balance
Fibromyalgia and obesity.

It's not about will power. I don't smoke, drink very rarely despite enjoying drinks as much as everyone else.

I've put everyone else first, everyone else's dietary needs, DHs exercise and work commitments, kids clubs- no one has prioritised me, including me.
If someone helped me the way I helped everyone else, things would look different.

@PaddyF0dder

I really want to hear some evidence that you can be obese and healthy. That just seems very unlikely!

With a BMI of 32 I was in size 14 clothes (at 5 ft 6... though I do have a lot of muscle) and had perfect bloods in terms of liver function, blood sugar and cholestrol / triglycerides etc. I ran three times a week and could run a half marathon in a decent ish time. Rarely ill.

Notably I have thyroid problems which caused the weight gain not an unhealthy diet. Over the last year I have brought my weight down slowly to a BMI of 28. I am still overweight. Still great bloods. I now run 25 miles per week.

Weight is not all about diet. I eat to a deficit for my BMR etc and as I say supposedly burn 4000 calories a week working out hard. My diet is great. My thyroid however screws stuff up.

The biggest thing I did for my weight was reducing stress and inflammation. The weight came off with no difference to diet, albeit a slow increase in mileage.

Anyway, I think I'm healthy. Apart from the thyroid ha.

I haven't read the whole thread. They tend to repeat the same information.
Fwiw I think there is a strong link between convenience / processed foods and the current obesity issue. Lack of time / inability to cook etc mean many rely on these.
There was far less obesity when there was a homemaker to prepare meals from scratch. The preservation chemicals for ready meals etc contribute to the problem.
It would be a very interesting experiment to work with a group that were given the time and the means to prepare meals from scratch.
There are many reasons for obesity, for a majority there is an emotional link and speaking from experience I gain weight when I'm under stress/ upset etc. Being happy and feeling positive have the opposite effect.
Unfortunately I'm a disaster area as I am over worked, under maximum stress, have a history of childhood physical and emotional abuse linked to food, and I'm permanently short of time. I quite often don't eat at all before 4pm or later, and end up with something convenient and unhealthy.
People don't need to be embarrassed as that is likely to exacerbate the problem.
There is no single solution.
If someone you know is trying to lose weight, and you want to be supportive then ask if they want company when they mention walking / exercising.
Make them some food if they are short of time and you're not.
We don't need to be told, we know. We don't need to be patronised. People need to realise that it is not just as simple as eat less and move more, as is trotted out here. If it were then the thousands of diet companies wouldn't exist.
My childhood abuse massively limits the foods I can eat without vomiting. I would love to enjoy salads and healthy foods.