9 year old DS and anger issues.

[runwithme]

Our son is 9 and has 'selective' anger issues. I say selective, because whenever I mentiont his to his teachers they look at me as if I have 3 heads. He is a lovely, confident, friendly child, both at home and at school but at home, if he gets upset or doesn't get his way then he kicks of big time. Today, for example, DH said DS could get the smallest slice of cake and the knife he used as it had lots of chocolate, or he could get the biggest slice, no knife. He chose the smallest and the knife. He then accidentally dropped the knife on the floor. DS then said he wanted the biggest slice. DH laughed and said "no, we've traded". There followed a massive tantrum - "have it, have it - you don't want me to eat anything - have it". Shouting continued, and he was told to eat the cake and go to bed. Lots of "its not fair!" and crying/shouting, not listening to what we are saying, not making any sense. He just gets so, so angry and its heartbreaking to see. It's always been like this- since he was 2. He cant control himself, and sometimes he comes out with bare faced lies, or twists what we say and its just awful.

Because its never happened at school I feel like they don't want to, or can't, help. So I am at a loss of what to do. We hate playing games with him because he reacts so badly when he loses, and he nearly always does, especially against his older sibling. Older DC loves to wind him up but more often than not we aren't witness to it and DS then gets himself so cross that we end up conflicted about how to deal with it.

There was a book that I read but I found myself so lost with it. I think it was about raising boys. Does anyone have any solutions? I really, really don't know what do as its so worrying. How do I get him to calm down, and better still, how do I get him to not get to the point of anger when the situation doesn't even call for it?

I'm following with interest because my nearly 9 year old is incredibly explosive at home and his sweet self at school. He can't seem to control himself at home.

@Lovingmylife

I'm following with interest because my nearly 9 year old is incredibly explosive at home and his sweet self at school. He can't seem to control himself at home.

Sorry to hear that. How long has it been going on for? Its heartbreaking, isn't it?

Have you put boundaries in, followed through when you tell him off? D Nephew 'loses it' but was always threatened with early bed/ go to his room/ no presents but the threat was never carried out.i feel its made him anxious and sometimes volatile. Just my theory though.

This is my 11 year old dd and I have no help for you but just want to say your not alone.
It's heartbreaking and I'm sure like me you are lost. The school are helping her (although she is great at school) but mornings she doesn't want to go and is making things very difficult. We try to keep things calm when she shouts and rolls around the floor but it's hard, especially when it's for no reason at all!
It's a difficult time and I think it's affecting our kids in ways we can't see.
All I can suggest is once he calms is to sit and cuddle and talk things through.

Same here. I blame myself as both my husband and I grew up in shouty households so I feel like we’re are just perpetuating it. How do you and your partner react to stress? I read Philippa Perry’s book recently. Worth a look.

My ds was the same at that age and a lot of his friends too I found out from chatting to their parents. Don't boys have a hormone surge at that age? My dd is 10 and several boys in her class seen to be similar in terms of behaviour.

My advice is lots and lots of exercise, good sleep and good food.

Try watching Inside Out with him - mine loved it and was then able to connect "feeling red" to feeling angry. We're still working on not losing the plot but at least it is now an identifiable feeling.

Is there any comminication/ social/ sensory issues? Intensely focused interests? Just wondering if it is a single issue or part of a greater collection of tendencies with it being a long-running characteristic.

@Caeruleanblue

Have you put boundaries in, followed through when you tell him off? D Nephew 'loses it' but was always threatened with early bed/ go to his room/ no presents but the threat was never carried out.i feel its made him anxious and sometimes volatile. Just my theory though.

Yes, we follow through, as hate being held hostage by the kids! Once we said he was going to be early he carried on with his tantrum, so I warned him that a 24 hour device ban was going to happen but he continued so he got it. Then he carried on and was this > @Kez0777 - that sounds bloody hard. It's nearly impossible not to lose it, isn't it? I try so hard, but staying calm gets me nowhere, and then it gets to the point where all my buttons have been pushed and I just lose it.

@ilovetomatoes - that's the thing, we aren't - or weren't - shouty people. I have become more shouty now. Is that part of being a parent? Will have a look at the book, thanks for the recommendation

@formerbabe - but he has always been like that. So I can't put it down to age. Diet is ok, could be better. Doesn't get loads of exercise but does/did a martial art twice a week and swimming lessons. He has pains in his legs so that reduces what he can do.

@LauraMipsum - great idea. We watched it but it definitely has a great message and I think he will be able make the connection

@BogRollBOGOF - well, when he sees something to get into, he gets proper into it, like Pokemon- wanted every single bit of merch that came with it. Harry Potter Lego, TMNT, Power Rangers - its always been like that. But I wouldn't say he has any sensory issues. Social-wise, again, no issues. Gets on with all ages, very confident. Probably converses a bit below his age group, but communicates well enough.

My DS is a bit younger but gets very cross when thwarted etc. At the time I Distract, and then at another time when he is calm, perhaps in the car as no eye contact so not confrontational, we discuss how to respond to things that have happened/are happening around us. Eg, I got a message when we were out for the day saying a delivery was being made a day early so we might not get back in time. DS said he would call and shout at them. We discussed how this might not be the most helpful thing to do, and then I got him to make suggestions about positive ways forward. A driver in front of us got very angry with someone who cut in front, we talked about how we can’t control what other people do but we can control how we respond to them. By getting angry, revving engine shouting etc, that driver was not driving safely. they could have done XYZ etc

I make sure to talk to him about causes of minor stresses in my life, and about how they make me feel and what solution I can find.

With games, I try and model being a good loser when I lose. Never mind, maybe I will win next time etc.

It didn’t come very naturally to me at first, but I reason that we teach children to do everything else, so teaching them how to Handle Emotion is just another thing to do. It definitely seems to be making a difference to DS, and he is exploding less than he did. Except when exhausted and then I just pack him off to bed.

@Solasum - that's really helpful, thanks. I never thought about the no eye contact thing being less confrontational. Will remember that. Also the suggestions of modelling behaviour, and talking through better options that others could use - that might trigger ideas in him of how he could alter his behaviour.

I’ve got an incredibly well behaved 9 year old but only have one child do I have no idea if it’s luck or nurture. I’m trying to think what might have been done differently in my house and if I can pick out anything that I wouldn’t have done.

The only think I can think about is that I would probably have allowed the child to do the swop after the dropped knife incident. Maybe not every time but most times. Let’s face it, a piece of cake is a big deal to a kid. I can buy cake whenever I want. Maybe (and this is a maybe) you’re being too strict and pushing rules too often 🤷🏻‍♀️

@runwithme definitely worth a try. DS’s dad deals very badly with anger, which was the main factor in our separation. I am determined that DS will be better equipped to deal with what life throws at him

Do his rages seem completely over the top compared with the issue that caused the rage? Eg. huge rage for minor things? Or rages that just never seem to stop no matter how much you bribe/remove/ say?

The talking with no eye contact thing is amazing for getting kids to open up.The cars a good one but I also get into bed with him every night and I’ll make sure we are both looking up at ceiling before I ask anything touchy. They then have a chance to turn away if they’re embarrassed but then they are more likely to start talking.

@Newdonewhugh I would have definitely let DS have the bigger slice but it was between DH and DS, I wasn't involved at the time. And DH did it because it was the deal they made. I get what you're saying though. Will try lying in bed with him and talking things through. I've been doing it wrong- directly looking at him because I wanted to know that he had my attention.

@bucketofcoffee sometimes they just come out of the blue, sometimes they are quite understandable. Another thing he does is he over exaggerates if hurt. It gets quite tiresome because if he doesn't get a cuddle or attention he flies into an almighty rage. He is never short of cuddles, btw. We are always hugging, telling him we love him. But sometimes its clearly a nothing incident.

I have an ‘occasionally angry’ 8 year old boy who also can have screaming tantrums and get very angry about things. In the instance you’ve described he would have kicked off in exactly the same way, and under the circumstances I would have swapped the cake. Because I’m the grown up, and kids are clumsy, and I know that the piece of cake would’ve meant far more to him than to me. It sounds to me like your DH was winding him up a bit, and I know that about certain things DS just can’t cope with teasing, no matter how good natured it is. We’re finding it especially kicks off if he feels that he’s been made to look stupid in some way, or has ‘lost face’. I’m a teacher and have spoken to the senco at my school about it, just to get some ideas.
She suggested - reward charts, go old school and get stickers etc.
Good food and sort out any sleep issues - we’ve had an awful year with bereavement and an impending house move so he’s very very unsettled generally.
Pick your battles - I tend to nag the small things - table manners etc and the constant reminding just makes him behave worse on purpose to wind me up, which can escalate into an argument ridiculously quickly. Therefore I have to make a concerted effort to ignore little crappy behaviours, and loudly praise the positive, because actually he has nice table manners when I’m not staring at him and waiting for him to mess up.
Screen time makes everything worse. He’s horrible when he’s had too much time on screens.

DS also doesn’t play up at school at all and friends of mine do not believe that he could ever behave the way he does.

Can you ask for a home/school book? You write in it and so does the teacher. This worked with DD. She was so well behaved at school but having anger issues at home and was mortified at the prospect of her teacher reading how she'd behaved at home.

Your DS seems to share a few anger traits...and the over reaction to pain trait as my DS.
School don't see any of it; he's never in trouble, has never been told off at school etc but it all comes out at home. It can be like an explosion at home with a small issue triggering a huge over reaction of emotions. You have my sympathy; it's so hard seeing a happy kid completely out of control of their emotions.
My DS does have various dxs though, most of which explain some of his behaviours.

runwithme how is he on recognising other feelings that build? Does he say he is hungry when he is bored or thirsty or tired? Any difficulties getting to sleep or toilet training when younger? Or the opposite of those?

I think in terms of “the deal” maybe the trick is definitely to pick your battles. Let’s face it, you lost that battle. He’s dominated you’re evening and got so much attention. There’s a difference between spoiling kids and giving in to everything and showing a bit of kindness over a bit of cake.
If I made that deal with another adult and they then spontaneously said to me “hey, still have the big slice, I know u love cake” I wouldn’t do the swop but it would reinforce my views that they were a good person, kind and that they like me.
I just wonder if you’re somehow got so fearful that spoiling him has created this behaviour when in fact it may be the opposite. Difficult, kids are so stressful, we just want the best for them c

My 9yo was diagnosed with ASD a year ago. He's brilliant at school (and previously nursery) but the frustration of masking through the day spills out at home.

He's a perfectionist that struggles with things not going to the plan in his head. Things like the cake would upset him.

His sensory settings are jumbled. Sometimes he likes more pressure. Sometimes he's very sensitive to things most people would barely register.

DS was 7 when the dots joined up that there were a variety of clues and that he wasn't growing out of "toddler tantrums"
Since accepting that he's lashing out because he's in distress, things have got easier. It tends to work better if we can get him off to a quieter "safe" space to defuse and then we can resolve things when he's got the capacity to process it.

It is worth looking up stategies to calm situations and often standard strategies can antagonise sensitive children.

@LauraMipsum

runwithme how is he on recognising other feelings that build? Does he say he is hungry when he is bored or thirsty or tired? Any difficulties getting to sleep or toilet training when younger? Or the opposite of those?

The reason I ask is that it sounds like he might have some difficulties with sensory processing.

People hear 'sensory' and think of children like mine who have ear defenders and flap. But there are much more subtle signs too, and while it can be connected to ASD / sensory processing disorder, some children just find sensory processing hard in the same way some children find learning to read hard.

Have a look at this clip on interoception (ignore that it says autism - that is the audience it's made for, but problems with interoception aren't exclusive to autism.)

You say your son overreacts to a trivial bump - that can be an interoception issue. Wanting the proprioceptive input from cuddles is really common too. If you combine that with the explosive anger it might be that he is struggling to identify these feelings until it is too late - he is not feeling the 'rising anger' or 'building rage,' he's just fine until suddenly he's not.

There are things you can do to help children improve interoception ranging from sensory therapy for children with more serious sensory processing needs down to the Zones of Regulation which is like Inside Out but a bit more structured. Kelly Mahler who made that clip also offers an interoception curriculum: www.kelly-mahler.com/product/the-interoception-curriculum-a-step-bystep-guide-to-developing-mindful-self-regulation/

I might be way off the mark but from the other things you've mentioned I think this would be worth checking out.

Just wanted to say thanks for the replies since my last one. Am in bed now and cant respond until tomorrow night but I definitely will. The suggestions have been useful and really interesting, so thank you x

Omg.