9 year old DS and anger issues.

[runwithme]

Our son is 9 and has 'selective' anger issues. I say selective, because whenever I mentiont his to his teachers they look at me as if I have 3 heads. He is a lovely, confident, friendly child, both at home and at school but at home, if he gets upset or doesn't get his way then he kicks of big time. Today, for example, DH said DS could get the smallest slice of cake and the knife he used as it had lots of chocolate, or he could get the biggest slice, no knife. He chose the smallest and the knife. He then accidentally dropped the knife on the floor. DS then said he wanted the biggest slice. DH laughed and said "no, we've traded". There followed a massive tantrum - "have it, have it - you don't want me to eat anything - have it". Shouting continued, and he was told to eat the cake and go to bed. Lots of "its not fair!" and crying/shouting, not listening to what we are saying, not making any sense. He just gets so, so angry and its heartbreaking to see. It's always been like this- since he was 2. He cant control himself, and sometimes he comes out with bare faced lies, or twists what we say and its just awful.

Because its never happened at school I feel like they don't want to, or can't, help. So I am at a loss of what to do. We hate playing games with him because he reacts so badly when he loses, and he nearly always does, especially against his older sibling. Older DC loves to wind him up but more often than not we aren't witness to it and DS then gets himself so cross that we end up conflicted about how to deal with it.

There was a book that I read but I found myself so lost with it. I think it was about raising boys. Does anyone have any solutions? I really, really don't know what do as its so worrying. How do I get him to calm down, and better still, how do I get him to not get to the point of anger when the situation doesn't even call for it?

Another person here with an ASD child who functions beautifully outside the house but often falls apart at home. Not saying that’s what’s happening to your son, but it has given me a lot of experience in dealing with childhood emotions.

Basically if he’s having a tantrum you need to recognise that he’s not really ‘there’ at that moment. You won’t get anywhere trying to address the situation while he’s angry, and you getting angry with him is just like pouring petrol on a fire. You need to help him to calm down (that might be input from you or it might be on his own - my child responds well to drawing, or to being sent to the shower). Once calm is restored, then you can address the behaviour. But punishing the tantrum is literally punishing him for having feelings. Helping him to deal with those feelings is far more appropriate long term.

Ds went through an angry stage, he would just blow his top and not know what to do with it. He punched the wall a couple of times too.

We focused on techniques to calm down, there is no point engaging until they are calm. We, talked about teenagers/hormones and getting angry and how we both needed to get through the next couple of years, which included him working out what works best for him to calm down - walking away, punching a pillow (less painful than a wall!), we got him into the habit of going off to calm down or if we could see he was getting angry difuse the situation with some humour. Only once he had calmed down we would talking about the original problem

@Whattodo121 - yes, I am definitely getting bettering with picking my battles but there are some instances where it just can't be done, especially if our older child is aware because he thinks DS gets an easier ride as it is. But today, for example, he asked for Fortnite, and he is just too young for it but I praised him for accepting our refusal considering his friends play it.

@indemMUND -in theory its a great idea but school are reluctant to have anything physical due to Covid. I could see if I could email them

@bucketofcoffee - that is exactly it. I feel so bad for him because he gets so sad after the tantrum

@LauraMipsum - no difficulties in feelings or toilet training although he was in pull-ups at night until last year. I'm definitely going to look into the interoception theory. It would be good to know a bit more about it and either rule it out or try to get someone to help us investigate further.

@Flamingolingo - this really stood out to me - punishing the tantrum is literally punishing him for having feelings. It is so hard though, when his tantrum is unreasonable, but I do understand that to him, its not unreasonable.

@WeAllHaveWings - it sounds like you've gone through this and come out the other end ok, so there is hope. Just need to find a strategy to help him cope with his emotions.

Thanks again everyone, I really appreciate the honesty and advice. x

Ah yes. It’s not easy. And I have waded in in full angry mode more times than I care to admit. But in theory we want them to recognise and acknowledge the feeling and work on it later. Praise helps us, especially if it’s praise or thanking him for not melting down over something that might have caused a tantrum, or for not retaliating to his brother’s goading.

@runwithme

Our son is 9 and has 'selective' anger issues. I say selective, because whenever I mentiont his to his teachers they look at me as if I have 3 heads. He is a lovely, confident, friendly child, both at home and at school but at home, if he gets upset or doesn't get his way then he kicks of big time. Today, for example, DH said DS could get the smallest slice of cake and the knife he used as it had lots of chocolate, or he could get the biggest slice, no knife. He chose the smallest and the knife. He then accidentally dropped the knife on the floor. DS then said he wanted the biggest slice. DH laughed and said "no, we've traded". There followed a massive tantrum - "have it, have it - you don't want me to eat anything - have it". Shouting continued, and he was told to eat the cake and go to bed. Lots of "its not fair!" and crying/shouting, not listening to what we are saying, not making any sense. He just gets so, so angry and its heartbreaking to see. It's always been like this- since he was 2. He cant control himself, and sometimes he comes out with bare faced lies, or twists what we say and its just awful.

Because its never happened at school I feel like they don't want to, or can't, help. So I am at a loss of what to do. We hate playing games with him because he reacts so badly when he loses, and he nearly always does, especially against his older sibling. Older DC loves to wind him up but more often than not we aren't witness to it and DS then gets himself so cross that we end up conflicted about how to deal with it.

There was a book that I read but I found myself so lost with it. I think it was about raising boys. Does anyone have any solutions? I really, really don't know what do as its so worrying. How do I get him to calm down, and better still, how do I get him to not get to the point of anger when the situation doesn't even call for it?

Your DH laughed? If my 9 year old dropped some of his cake my reaction would be to sympathise and offer him a bit extra from mine. Your eldest DC seems to get free rein to wind him up also? No wonder hes furious and frustrated

I bet you son up until now has generally been a good boy, no trouble at all etc and you can't understand whats got into him. Maybe that's part of the problem, he is the quiet, good one who as a result, doesn't get as much attention as his siblings, and is expected to behave well all the time.

As well as his issue being around controlling his emotions, could it be caused by feeling like he has no control over some things in his home life? The cake example you gave; he was given a choice, he made the one he wanted, then the knife was accidentally dropped and he lost something he was looking forward to. So he was upset and tried to find a solution (to have the bigger piece instead), but his Dad laughed at him. In his mind he accidently lost something he wanted, was upset so tried to resolve the issue but couldn't, and was mocked for his efforts. It would have felt so unfair to him and he would have felt helpless so he lost it as he is unable to process such emotions properly yet. To him it was a big deal, but you as adults, saw a child having a tantrum over some cake.

This sort of thing wouldn't happen at school because (I hope) a teacher would talk things through with the children to help them process their upset, and anyone laughing at another for their misfortune would be reprimanded, a teacher certainly wouldn't do that.

See life through his eyes. He has an older brother who taunts him (not at all unusual for siblings), parents who don't understand why he isn't the good boy they expect him to be all the time, and sometimes mock him inadvertently, and crucially, the only way he gets anyone to listen to him is to completely lose it.

Work with him to process negative emotions and disappointments in his life, however small they seem. Let him know his feelings are valid, and never laugh at him when he's feeling at all bad about anything.

You may also want to work with him, on managing his expectations, like reacting badly when he loses a game, or things don't happen the way he thinks they should and to him then his whole world falls apart because he can't control the outcome.

I don't think they are anger issues per se, I think he's in meltdown. Particularly because he's masking all day and the slightest thing when he gets home triggers it and lets him relieve all of that effort in a place he feels safe.

What techniques have you taught him so far in order to deal/cope with his emotions?

Does he recognise his triggers,and when things start to escalate?

It's pointless getting him to listen or be rational in the middle of a rage. His brain is focused on fight. Nothing goes in,if anything it can be even more frustrating. He might not be ready even after he stops,because he's still in let down mode.

You say he's sad after, is he tired as well?

What you need to accept is that his behaviour won't improve/change overnight. There's no magic wand or punishment that will make it go away.

The real work takes time and must be done when he's in a good mood/place.

Discussions about recognising and acknowledging his feelings, what could he do instead, how to let you know he's getting upset before it gets to that point, taking some time out and learning to redirect his anger,if it is anger.

And I say if because sometimes anxiety,insecurity,shame,embarrassment,sadness etc can come out like anger and labelling it as such ,a lot of the time doesn't help. Especially when boys (in general) learn quite quickly (from various sources) that anger is expressed violently,with outbursts etc.

Also inability to cope with "losing" (at a board game or getting a good cake deal)sometimes hides low self esteem. I must win because I have to prove myself all the time.

How is his self esteem?

The likelihood is he is holding everything in at school and it's all coming out at home when he feels comfortable. I work with children with ASD/SEMH difficulties and this is extremely common-masking their difficulties in school in order to 'fit in' then parents get the brunt of the anger and anxiety whilst at home.

Neurotypical children can experience exactly the same, not wanting to 'kick up a fuss' so to speak in front of everybody at school, but any negative feelings they have are just building and building until they get home and can let it all out. Might be worth thinking about if there's anything at school or at home that could be bothering him or playing on his mind, could seem the smallest thing in the world to us adults but be a huge deal to him. I've had a child having similar issues recently, his mum was bereft and didn't know what to do. Turned out he had overheard a conversation between parents and got the wrong end of the stick, thinking they were planning on moving house. That was enough to cause him a great deal of anxiety.

My dd 8 has suspected ASD and has massive anger issues at home if things don't go her way, I wrote on here about this recently. One brilliant piece of advice was to see their behaviour as being in pain and to not get angry but to soothe them as if they had a broken leg or other injury !! I'm afraid I still lose it with her sometimes though, it's very hard.

My DS was a bit like this at that age. He's 12 now and has grown out of it over the last year.

Really interesting thread - thank you. Another one with a similar 9 year old who (in my opinion) overreacts to disappointments and upsets. Looking forward to trying some of these tips.

This weekends example - we went to a park and discovered there was a food market. Said DS could have a doughnut at the end. Market was due to close at 4pm but when we went at 3pm they had stopped letting people in and were closing. DS ranted at me, it was my fault for not going earlier etc. On the way home when he was calmer we had a conversation (no eye contact - good tip) about how this was disappointing for both us as I wanted a doughnut too. I didn’t expect it to close an hour earlier than expected, he could have something different at home and we might go back another time to get a doughnut. He did eventually realise that this was one of these things that happen and it was ok to be disappointed, but not to take it out on those closest to him. In the end he thought that if he ran a market in future, he would be very clear about closing times on the poster - which we agreed was better than him ranting at the owner of this market. We also agreed that he had lost out, but so had the market as we hadn’t bought anything. Helping him to understand these different points of view is important in helping him understand how to process his emotions - but my goodness it is hard work at the time.

Emotional regulation is a skill dc have to learn. It sounds like he needs help labelling some emotions (e.g. disappointment about dropping the knife rather than anger). That said, the adult having thr bigger slice when he has accidently dropped some of his is unkind - couldn't they have evened things up by cutting a bit off one? Dc are very powerless and I wonder if that was what he was reacting to.

My 9yo gets very angry sometimes, which I don't think is unusual. I've been trying to encourage her to go to a quiet place to calm down (of her own volition, not sent as a punishment). I won't punish her for her emotions, only for behaviours.

Sounds like my autistic child.

Same here. Was never like this pre lockdown. He was better in summer but was harder when we went to their 3 as not allowed t9 play with his mates. That's all he wants. Back to horrendous behaviour again now.

Try this book

www.amazon.co.uk/My-Hidden-Chimp-author-Paradox/dp/1787413713/ref=nodl_?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Aimed at children.