Am i financially deluded about things, is this the norm?

[heidalot]

I really need a sense check on this. Have NC as I know one of these people is definitely on MN.

My parents, lovely as they are, have always pleaded poverty in one way or another. They have five homes (including the one they live in). They are mortgage free on the house they live in, worth around 500k. Other four homes worth around 150-200 each, all mortgaged and rented out bar one that is a holiday home (also mortgaged but not rented out). They work one day a week each, 58 and 60. On the cusp of getting another car, not brand new but costing 20k..this is where it starts. ‘We can’t afford to buy the car we have to take a loan for it, worrying really.’ Then ‘these buy to let’s dont always pay for themselves, we have to spend a lot of money and time with upkeep...’ I kind of get this, it’s not easy having properties to run and I also get that not everyone who has investments is cash rich and can buy a car outright without a loan. But they will often compare to others who clearly are less financially well off and suggest that they have it hard. They’ve even said things to me such as oh you have lots of income you are fine I am fine, but in comparison to them not at all well off. They are not mean with money and have helped me and my brother out buying a house etc but whenever we go to cafes or rent a film on sky or fancy an expensive Starbucks we near not end of how hard it is for them and they are always hit as the middle class....

Anyway, raised this with a couple of close friends after another recent rant by my mum last weekend and they COMPLETELY got the wrong end of the stick and were saying that gosh yes the cost of their cleaners was getting difficult and it’s ‘people like us’ that get hit the most. One of which said in total seriousness that her PA, who lives in a one bed flat in a terrible area, renting, was ‘much better off funnily enough when you look at outgoings.’

I’m starting to wonder if I am deluded that I feel financially ok on my salary and with only 40% of my mortgage paid off!! I’d considered myself fortunate not hard done by!! If find these comments unbelievably short sighted and lacking in awareness...please tell me I am right?? Or have I been conditioned into thinking my relatively ok income and house is enough?! I’ve felt shit about mentally mocking my parents for their complaining after my friends reactions. Maybe it’s me who is deluded and I’m in for a shock later down the line.

I think it's a disposable income thing (your parents have lots of assets, but potentially not much money on a day to day basis). Plus comparing yourself to others who seemingly have a more affluent lifestyle.

Growing up, I always though of myself as from a poor family. I realised as a teen that actually my family lived in a good sized house in a good area and paid for their 3 children to go to private school, so we were clearly not poor by any standard. However, because of the money spent on house and private education, on a day to day basis we didn't have a lot. We used to watch a series of cheap 2nd hand televisions, and when one broke there was always a gap before my parents could afford to buy a new one. I had hardly any clothes (3 sets of school uniform and 3 sets of casual clothes) . As a teen, I got one present (along the lines of a jumper) for Christmas. We did have holidays but it was likely to be a week at the seaside - we never went abroad. My parents had money but their choices meant that they didn't have much of it available to spend on lifestyle.

Jesus, your friends are knobs. The cost of their cleaners is getting difficult?!

Well I think true poverty is about lack of choices. If you have choices- whether it’s to buy a more expensive car or to sell one of your many buy to let properties (if you had to - as in your parents case) you’re not in poverty or doing badly! I think it’s all relative though, there’s always someone better or worse off than you.

One of which said in total seriousness that her PA, who lives in a one bed flat in a terrible area, renting, was ‘much better off funnily enough when you look at outgoings.’

I hope she’s never that idiotically tactless to her PA’s face!

No its not you its them. And I'm not surprised because the media kind of vilified younger people doesn't it? Suggesting they drink too much stsrbucks and buy too many iPhone to be able to buy houses etc... they probably believe they work loads harder than other generations. Sometimes people whove never been in actual poverty have literally no clue.
I used to be homeless and occasionally id scrape the money together for a starbucks coffee to cher myself up.
These people don't understand that poverty is cumulative and about having no safety net or back up options.. living hand to mouth.
A lot of things would have to happen for your parents to be on the street. Many people are literally one paycheck away from being on the street. Having 3 quid change to buy a starbucks coffee once is basically irrelevant

There are people who are just really clueless though. I remember having a conversation with one of my neighbours a few years ago - we were in a rented flat, they owned. We were saying that we could both do with a bigger place but it was so expensive to buy.

Me: “I just can’t afford to buy somewhere, not for a few years at least. It’s so expensive.”
Him: “Yes, us too, there’s no way we can afford a new flat.
They’re ridiculous prices.”
Me: “Annoying, isn’t it?”
Him: “I feel like we’re trapped.” [Big sigh] “I suppose if the worst comes to the worst, we’ll have to get a mortgage.”

They have a poverty 'poor me' mentality going on, even when they are not poor anymore! It's easy to be like that though, you carry on counting the cost of eating out or whatever, the difference being that if for some reason they lost their (one day a week job) they would have considerable assets to fall back on. They could easily sell one property if they feel like they are in 'hard times' (lol).

In the short-term, perhaps a PA renting a one-bed in their 20s has more disposable income than someone in their 40s with a house to maintain and a business to run, meaning higher outgoings.

And perhaps you do have more disposable liquid income than your parents.

But in the long-term of course the people with property they own and investments accumulating are better off, even if day to day it means less liquid cash to spend.

It’s annoying and insensitive to go on about your perception of being cash-poor though, so neither your friend or your parents are very sensitive!

In ireland it's called 'the poor mouth'. I never believe a word of it to be honest.

Wow. I guess some people don't really want to face the real life others live in. Many romanticise poverty. It avoids facing to the inequalities of our societies.

I have seen that a lot in poorer countries. Tourists going on how great the simple/natural life of the locals was, while the locals struggled for clean water and access to medicine.

I hate this. I have a lower income to my friends, and although I am very lucky to own my flat on a mortgage I do live alone on the average salary. While they live in two person, high income households, they are always complaining about how they are hit the hardest. It’s a shame they are not thanking the stars about the position they are in, I feel lucky that I still have a job, can live ok on my 80% furlough.

No, you are not deluded. Your parents are, however. You can't argue with them as, in their minds, they are (and could well be) cash poor. They don't see being asset-rich as being well-off likely because they are tied up in mortgages.

They probably mean disposable income, me and dh worked super hard to buy a house and we had have a mortgage.

When both of us had our jobs threatened this year we worked out the safety net provided by the government would end up is going back to square one if we didn't get jobs very quickly after being made redundant.
We'd actually have been better off in this situation not buying, not working hard and just renting without bother to save. We have worked so very hard it's quite hard to compare to someone who, hasn't saved, hasn't worked as hard, hasn't spent the last ten years training/putting off a family etc be higher up the queue for help when you've contributed more. But that's just the way it is.

Such an astonishing lack of empathy for anyone not really wealthy.

And they are really wealthy - what, in the top 1% of wealth across the globe 🌎?

Those are people who really need to practice that gratitude mindset (middle clash tosh usually - but the need it)

@doublehalo thanks for that, it really tickled me. I can just imagine the 'type' and it's spot on. Brilliant saying! Christ I wish I could get a mortgage, never mind be mortgage free with a house to show for it (and the rest)

It isn't you OP, I once had a pop at my ex FIL for a throwaway comment on "getting by" on a household income of 100k and mortgage free house work 750k. Not a fucking clue about actually scraping by!

@RedskyAtnight

I think it's a disposable income thing (your parents have lots of assets, but potentially not much money on a day to day basis). Plus comparing yourself to others who seemingly have a more affluent lifestyle.

Growing up, I always though of myself as from a poor family. I realised as a teen that actually my family lived in a good sized house in a good area and paid for their 3 children to go to private school, so we were clearly not poor by any standard. However, because of the money spent on house and private education, on a day to day basis we didn't have a lot. We used to watch a series of cheap 2nd hand televisions, and when one broke there was always a gap before my parents could afford to buy a new one. I had hardly any clothes (3 sets of school uniform and 3 sets of casual clothes) . As a teen, I got one present (along the lines of a jumper) for Christmas. We did have holidays but it was likely to be a week at the seaside - we never went abroad. My parents had money but their choices meant that they didn't have much of it available to spend on lifestyle.

Gosh! Were you happy? I’m from a council house. It was a nice area, house was 2 years old when we moved in, as was I. Dad didn’t earn much when I was a child and mum never worked. I was an only child and I was never aware of any sense of lack. We all had plenty of clothes, food and two holidays a year, once to stay with relatives in wales and the other a south coast sea side resort. I was lucky to pass the 11plus and went to a state grammar school and got an excellent education.

My parents couldn’t have afforded to send me to private school any way and I’m pleased I had this way round.
Dad got a car when I was 5 so that meant lots of day trips when he wasn’t working and we all to Spain when I was 5, you know that little fishing village of San Sebastián in 1957 😂
Dad worked on the railways then so got free travel.

No, you're definitely not deluded. Once your parents' tenants have paid off their mortgages for them they will be millionaires. The fact that they've chosen to put their money in long term investments, which will eventually make them richer than the vast majority of people just in this country let alone the world, doesn't make them badly off by any stretch of the imagination. They obviously can't be that worried about their car loan or they'd buy a cheaper one, like the rest of us do.

I'm not sure I could be friends with people who seemed to genuinely begrudge paying their cleaner a living wage. There's always this narrative about "working hard" for their money, isn't there, as though people who scrub toilets and empty bins and carry out personal care for strangers while living in shitty rented flats and struggling to pay their heating bills have somehow got it easy.

A friend once said "everyone thinks they are poor" which is kind of true really.Many people seem to be quite well off to me .Large houses all paid for ,good jobs each and so on.However the recent pandemic has hit hard and many of these "good"jobs are no longer certain! I think there is a fine line between being "careful" with money and being "tight! really .We always had plenty of food, and lots of days out,holidays in Europe /South Coast and so on.

"We'd actually have been better off in this situation not buying, not working hard and just renting without bother to save. "

@fluffypumpkin - I'm sure you're not implying that people who rent don't work hard, and they can't be arsed to save as they're frittering away their income on extortionate rent...?!

It isn't you, OP. @Unicant has it spot on. Your parents and friends have weird form of financial illiteracy if they can't see the difference between cash flow and assets. They have a lot of choices but prefer to see themselves as victims because they want... pity, I guess?

@fluffypumpkin

They probably mean disposable income, me and dh worked super hard to buy a house and we had have a mortgage.

When both of us had our jobs threatened this year we worked out the safety net provided by the government would end up is going back to square one if we didn't get jobs very quickly after being made redundant.
We'd actually have been better off in this situation not buying, not working hard and just renting without bother to save. We have worked so very hard it's quite hard to compare to someone who, hasn't saved, hasn't worked as hard, hasn't spent the last ten years training/putting off a family etc be higher up the queue for help when you've contributed more. But that's just the way it is.

The changes the Tories have made to benefits and other support over the last ten years are dreadful. There really is no support however much you paid in if you have savings.

However, no one who owns a home can be worse off than someone who doesn't, even under current shit system since the mortgage relief (correct name?) was scrapped for a loan.

No, it’s them. I have a family member always ranting about how hard life is and how the world is set up to get people like him. He’s mortgage free, makes £250k a year with a Christmas bonus, kicks up a fuss and we all here about what a tough unfair year it’s been when the Christmas bonus is anything less than £100k. Actually starts talking about the struggle of life when personal savings (not investments, like literally what is sitting in savings accounts in the bank dips below £200k - savings rates are so bad, it’s obvious he’s a twat just for investing money so badly!). At Christmas dinner a few years ago, got into a rant with my ILs (who read the DM and also tend to be the sort who like to complain about being so hard done by) about how unfair taxation is on people like him ‘who aren’t even wealthy’ earning £250k-1M a year. MIL nearly choked on her turkey she was so flabbergasted and had nothing to even say.

In ireland it's called 'the poor mouth'. I never believe a word of it to be honest.

Yes, people who are genuinely poor and struggling without any options to get out of it usually (sadly) feel ashamed of their circumstances and will often minimise it if they ever mention it at all or tell white lies to avoid alerting others to their true situation.

It's all very well to go stealth boasting blabbing to all and sundry that paying your cleaner, gardener, chauffeur and nanny is putting a big dint in the old bank balance, but when you're eating dry bread because you can't afford a tub of the cheapest butter substitute or desperately hoping that your growing child isn't too active at playtime and splits their too-tight trousers before you can afford to buy some in the next size up, you keep your mouth firmly zipped.

Your parents and friends sound insufferable.