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Iranian Embassy Siege, May 1980

49 replies

WildRosie · 02/11/2020 20:55

Firstly, apologies to those who don't remember this incident or perhaps were not even born at the time.

I seem to remember the incident being discussed on the radio a few years ago. I'm sure I heard it mentioned that the SAS Commander at the scene had planned to send his soldiers into the embassy equipped with night-vision goggles and armed with semi-automatic handguns. The plan was for an assault in conditions of darkness and for the captors to be effectively 'picked off' by the SAS. However, the plan didn't proceed, apparently because the then UK Attorney General was concerned that the nature of the assault would be tantamount to state-sanctioned assassination of the captors.

The above is my understanding; being neither a soldier nor a lawyer I could be wrong. I could have misheard the radio broadcast. My own take on the assassination angle is that the SAS as soldiers would not have technically engaged the enemy under the Geneva convention and so any fatalities on the captors' side would have been regarded as homicides (justifiable or otherwise) rather than enemy combatant casualties.

Sorry if this sounds like gobbledegook. I'd welcome any learned opinions.

OP posts:
yawnsvillex · 02/11/2020 21:06

This may help OP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IranianEmbassyy_siege

monkeytennis97 · 02/11/2020 21:08

It was the first major news story I was aware about as a child. Remember feeling quite scared.

FedUpAtHomeTroels · 02/11/2020 21:33

I remember sitting and watching it on the TV it seemed to go on forever. I was 18 at the time.

DramaAlpaca · 02/11/2020 21:36

I don't have any learned insight but I clearly remember this. I was almost 16 at the time.

WildRosie · 02/11/2020 21:41

Thankyou for your replies. I honestly wasnt expecting much of a response. I've read the Wikipedia article this evening and it is as much as I reasonably remember (I was nine at the time). There's no mention of the assault plan I'm talking about - probably because it's academic as it didn't happen that way. It was a chilling time.

OP posts:
Elderflower14 · 02/11/2020 21:42

My late husband was in the SAS. He trained all the men who went in. He retired two weeks before the siege.

VaggieMight · 02/11/2020 21:48

My late husband was in the SAS. He trained all the men who went in. He retired two weeks before the siege. Wow.

There's an excellent documentary about it, I think you can watch it on YouTube. It's got interviews with the SAS, hostages and police etc. I've watched it a few times it's so interesting. I was a baby when it happened but I saw the footage when I was young. Apparently no one knew the SAS existed before this happened,

Kez200 · 02/11/2020 21:50

I remember seeing this footage and crying in my Mums arms. It was the first violence Id seen on the news that triggered as so close to home. Most news like that wasnt in the UK.

Elderflower14 · 02/11/2020 21:58

I was lucky enough to meet two guys who worked with my husband at an SAS day..
Rusty Firman is the main go to guy re the siege.
He told us a wonderful story about afterwards...
The team were having their down time at a London Barracks when Mrs Thatcher and Willy Whitelaw turned up.. They were walking round talking to people when the news came on. John Mcaleese (RIP) wanted to see the news and apparently stood up and roared down the room. "PERSON AT THE FRONT, MOVE YOUR FUCKING HEAD!!!"
Mrs Thatcher carefully moved from the front of the tv!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

VaggieMight · 02/11/2020 22:10

John Mcaleese (RIP) wanted to see the news and apparently stood up and roared down the room. "PERSON AT THE FRONT, MOVE YOUR FUCKING HEAD!!!"
Mrs Thatcher carefully moved from the front of the tv!!

That's the best bit in his Scottish accent 😂😂😂 and she apologised and moved 🤣🤣🤣

waitrosetrollydolly · 02/11/2020 22:11

So many people were 'on the balcony' that day, about 3055 if you believe all the Walters who claimed to be there.

Yawn, real hero's don't brag.

VaggieMight · 02/11/2020 22:13

@Elderflower14 I just read your post properly, you were told the story in person but it's also on the documentary hence I added the bit about the Scottish accent.

Elderflower14 · 02/11/2020 22:27

Another story my husband told me was of when there were floods and the SAS were called on to help.
Lofty Wiseman was a good friend of DHs. They were in a dinghy and giving out food and drink to people in their homes..
He gave a lady some coffee and apparently she got cross and told him off as there was so sugar in it!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

Damnloginpopup · 03/11/2020 00:49

From memory the protection offered by the Geneva convention does not apply to terrorists, who can be legally executed. I'd also suggest that night vision would not be ideal for this as it is very difficult to assess distance, especially with the technology 40 years back, along with any flashes (stun grenades, gunfire etc) bleaching out the view momentarily. It's Hollywood bollocks.

Once had Peter Macaleese (or Dave Tompkins, I forget now) stay overnight at my home for bed and breakfast, around 1990 I think. My parents were on holiday and told me not to take anyone as they could be dangerous etc but I figured what the hell... When he mentioned his name I twigged who he was (I knew of Macaleese and Tompkins from their work in Colombia). Slightly aghast...

Nb they made no mention of the regiment and if I remember rightly the son was on leave from the army (might have been why I took them in actually)

Damnloginpopup · 03/11/2020 00:58

It was Macaleese. 1992/3.

WildRosie · 03/11/2020 10:00

Thankyou Damnlogin, a worthy perspective. I admit to clutching at straws with my theory. I wish I could remember where and when I'd heard about the Attorney General's concerns. I don't think I imagined it!

OP posts:
notimagain · 03/11/2020 10:05

So many people were 'on the balcony' that day, about 3055 if you believe all the Walters who claimed to be there.

Grin..I have heard it said that if all the stories were to be believed the embassy would have needed a balcony bigger than the Albert Hall.

Apparently no one knew the SAS existed before this happened

That's not true, plenty of people knew they existed but for good reason their activities didn't generally make mainstream media and certainly not live TV.

frontlegsofacow · 03/11/2020 10:49

@Elderflower14

I was lucky enough to meet two guys who worked with my husband at an SAS day.. Rusty Firman is the main go to guy re the siege. He told us a wonderful story about afterwards... The team were having their down time at a London Barracks when Mrs Thatcher and Willy Whitelaw turned up.. They were walking round talking to people when the news came on. John Mcaleese (RIP) wanted to see the news and apparently stood up and roared down the room. "PERSON AT THE FRONT, MOVE YOUR FUCKING HEAD!!!" Mrs Thatcher carefully moved from the front of the tv!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
I LOVE this story!
Damnloginpopup · 03/11/2020 14:43

No, thank you Wildrosie! You sent me down a marvellous rabbit hole last night on google and wiki Grin

Peter Macaleese (the one I probably didn't meet but maybe it was) was also in Angola with that mercenary debacle. I'd read a fair bit about this many years ago and always found it to be rather an interesting (and downright bizarre) tale. Anyway, I clicked through and started reading about Callan and then followed a link and a google search or three as you do and came across a list of the men who went out there. And spotted another name from my own past...Leslie Aspin. I haven't thought about him in decades. Turns out that he was one of the recruiters - I knew the name John Banks very well, the one who is usually named and takes most of the blame (overreaching arsehole that he was) but had no idea of Aspins link. Story follows, slightly off tangent...

Back in 1989 my grandfather was in the Norfolk and Norwich Hospital with pancreatic cancer. Visiting with my parents (I was 16 at the time) we got to meet and know his roommate in a 2-person ward. Nice fella, good company and someone my grandfather (who I remember as quite gruff and not suffering fools though this might have been different from an adults pint of view to be fair) took to and they seemed to get on like a house on fire. We even have a photo of them together somewhere I think. Les, as I recall, was very thin and not in the best of health (obviously why he was in there) and we used to take him a 4 pack of Guinness as the nurses/doctors supported it as being a better and cheaper option than the iron tablets he was supposed to take. Anyway, I recall my dad telling me that Les had been a mercenary at some point (maybe a pilot or something too?) and I remember that he died but other than that very little. Reading this was an eye-opener and I sent it across to my dad last night. Just wow:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/was-this-man-britains-irangate-fixer-1445398.html

My grandfather started to keep some random company towards the end now I come to think of it. He had a 'friendship' with the mother of Richard (of Richard and Judy) too. My parents and I went around for a meal once and she gave us tinned Heinz tomato soup with cream in it. Massive treat for me as that's my favourite soup but she seemed offended when I put pepper on it and she said that in a proper restaurant that would be considered rude etc. She was well to do and rather pretentious and my dad took exception to us being served tinned soup and her thinking she was some kind of bloody gourmet Grin My dad is usually very forgiving of people...I liked her, he thought she was a snob and an arse and didn't keep in touch.

One last bit...rabbit warren more than hole, my mum grew up in the Belgian Congo (what used to be called now Zaire but is now called now Democratic Republic of Congo ) Northern Rhodesia (which is now called now Zambia) and went to school in the Republic of South Africa (which is now just called South Africa). Anyway, she was there during the 1960's and walked out twice as a refugee when things were getting bad. She remembers the mercenaries, is very scathing of the UN, loved playing football with 'the sikhs' (Indian UN troops stationed nearby) saw a mob waving pangas around and trying to pull gurkhas out of a truck and various other tales of a ditch full of corpses, mattresses against the walls, narrowly avoiding being raped with her mother and sisters in her home as one of the stoned rebels knew her father...I need to record this properly I think.

I'm often amazed at the more outlandish things in my life. Makes me sound like a bit of a walt myself but I definitely wasn't anywhere near the balcony - I was only seven Grin

Anyway, back to the siege, I'm sure the Attorney General story is feasible and would like to know for sure. The geneva convention applies to theatres of war and may well have not applied in this instance...perhaps that's also why the gloves never came fully off in Northern Ireland? Iraq and Afghanistan and terrorists (un-uniformed 'combatants' rather than guerillas which are recognisable as a combatant and theoretically afforded protection by the Convention) are moot points too as from memory neither country were signatories...

Too many rabbits...

Damnloginpopup · 03/11/2020 14:51

Yep. Definitely the Les I knew:

reuters.screenocean.com/record/1060700

StephenBelafonte · 03/11/2020 14:58

There was a very good film made about this a few years ago here

Elderflower14 · 03/11/2020 15:06

[quote StephenBelafonte]There was a very good film made about this a few years ago here

[/quote] I've been trying to buy it on DVD. Only available in America I think 🤔 😔
WildRosie · 03/11/2020 17:57

The Geneva Convention must be a minefield (if you'll pardon the pun) for even the most learned legal minds. One hopes the Attorney General knew his way around it, if of course he had the reservations I think he had. I don't know what the consequences would have been for the British Government had these 'assassinations' actually happened.

There was a soldier called Horsfall who served alongside McAleese.

OP posts:
chomalungma · 03/11/2020 18:49

You couldn't imagine such a thing happening without the people inside knowing it was about to happen.

Twitter
Live feeds

Hard to avoid the surprise element - unless mobile phones, wi-fi networks etc are closed down - as well as drones and all that.

mpsw · 03/11/2020 19:00

I don't think there was any question about the legality of the operation after the gunmen executed a hostage.

Force, up to and including lethal force, is legal to protect life when there is credible and imminent threat to it. The SAS actions were also scrutinised at an inquest, which found no wrongdoing.