Iranian Embassy Siege, May 1980

[WildRosie]

Firstly, apologies to those who don't remember this incident or perhaps were not even born at the time.

I seem to remember the incident being discussed on the radio a few years ago. I'm sure I heard it mentioned that the SAS Commander at the scene had planned to send his soldiers into the embassy equipped with night-vision goggles and armed with semi-automatic handguns. The plan was for an assault in conditions of darkness and for the captors to be effectively 'picked off' by the SAS. However, the plan didn't proceed, apparently because the then UK Attorney General was concerned that the nature of the assault would be tantamount to state-sanctioned assassination of the captors.

The above is my understanding; being neither a soldier nor a lawyer I could be wrong. I could have misheard the radio broadcast. My own take on the assassination angle is that the SAS as soldiers would not have technically engaged the enemy under the Geneva convention and so any fatalities on the captors' side would have been regarded as homicides (justifiable or otherwise) rather than enemy combatant casualties.

Sorry if this sounds like gobbledegook. I'd welcome any learned opinions.

@WildRosie

The Geneva Convention must be a minefield (if you'll pardon the pun) for even the most learned legal minds. One hopes the Attorney General knew his way around it, if of course he had the reservations I think he had. I don't know what the consequences would have been for the British Government had these 'assassinations' actually happened.

There was a soldier called Horsfall who served alongside McAleese.

All but one of them were killed / ‘assasinated’ and it was all looked into in the subsequent inquiry

With regard to the Geneva convention, it protects everyone whether they a regular Armies, irregular freedom fighters / terrorists / mercenaries, civilians etc. Combatants don’t need to be signatories, and anyone in a war situation could face international and / or local laws.
The Army are provided with the Rules of Engagement for any deployment.
In the Iranian embassy it was a matter of rescuing hostages with force when the killing of hostages began

Robin Horsfall Book
Rusty Firmin Book

Thankyou mpsw and tommika. I think the technical term used for the 'elimination' of the captors by the SAS was 'justifiable homicide' but perhaps I'm splitting hairs. Again, at the risk of being pedantic, would the killing of a hostage by one of the captors be classed as 'murder' rather than 'execution' ? I'm just making observations here and I don't claim to know what was so and what wasn't, IYSWIM.

In the Iranian embassy it was a matter of rescuing hostages with force when the killing of hostages began

Yep, agree with the above comment and other similar ones - the timing of the assault was down to the killing of the first hostage rather than any worries about legal matters.

If you look at subsequent similar events around the world (aircraft hijacks, other embassy and building sieges etc) where various nations special forces have been involved negotiations have often become very protracted but the use force has been sanctioned and in turn generally initiated PDQ once hostages start getting killed.

I got to go to the Special Forces Day because I happened to be in the right place at the right time...
My friend and I visited the Army Museum in Chelsea. As I was paying for something in the shop I saw a poster advertising the event and told the cashier about my late DH.
We left and were walking down the road when suddenly a hand came down on my shoulder. I was terrified and looked at my friend and said had I forgotten to pay for something? I turned round to see the cashier. She said her colleague wanted to talk to me and I really thought I had forgotten to pay for something...
She explained he was organising the event so I went back.. He offered me a free ticket for the event.
I met Rusty and and now late Pete Scholey... They both remembered DH and wrote the most beautiful messages in their books for ds2.
Pete told the most hilarious story about being parachuted into a tree and getting stuck in Borneo and then noticing an orangutan in the next tree making sexual overtures at him and him frantically trying to get out of his harness and the tree!! 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣

This is such an interesting thread. Thanks OP.

Not at all.

I was 3 at the time, yet seem to remember it, but sure about that, maybe I saw it on tv later.

I'm surprised looking at it now, that it was broadcast live!

Weren't they forced to go in early because they felt the terrorists were getting jittery ?

@DGRossetti

Weren't they forced to go in early because they felt the terrorists were getting jittery ?

There wasn’t a planned time to go in. The siege was under police control, with the SAS on scene if it went out of control

When shots were heard the SAS were readied, and once the death of a hostage was confirmed they were ordered to go ahead

I've seen John Mcaleese who took part claim Thatcher told them to kill them all- they caught one of them on the way out trying to blend in with hostages and there was a moment where they wondered if they had to shoot him, but ended up arresting him outside instead. MP5s are semi automatic/automatic and fire pistol calibre ammo. Also the assault took place very quickly after they killed a hostage so Im not sure how much political input there was.

also night vision in those days was a huge scope thing, it wouldnt have been doable, they have torches attached to guns instead and I seem to remember turned off the power. Flashbangs make nightvision useless as well.

John Mcaleese's son was killed in Afghanistan and then he died himself quite young not long afterwards whilst on holiday. It was a really big thing in the army. He was also in the Loughgall ambush.

Thankyou user. I'm beginning to doubt I ever heard the night vision thingummybob. I've read that the then Home Secretary, William Whitelaw, was 'directing' proceedings from the Government perspective. Margaret Thatcher wasn't around for a reason I don't know - probably away at an overseas conference. So I'm not sure if she personally issued the order to totally eliminate the captors or if she delegated the responsibility to our Willie. She trusted him enormously and he was very much her right-hand man.

Apart from Denis, of course .

I do recall some complaints that the tv coverage of the snooker had been suspended to show the siege live as it happened.

also night vision in those days was a huge scope thing,

It was indeed.

We had some might vision kit where I was working in a flying "job" at the time of the siege and as you rightly say the device was something a bit akin to a large camera telephoto lens.

The first time I saw helmet mounted kit was two or three years later...whether the SAS had got some super dooper kit from the likes if the States before then I don't know.

up until that moment there was v.little media interest in the SAS (or lots of D notices). Unfortunately it was televised live. Prob be done different now as everyone has a phone but the TV signal would prob be 'lost'. Whitelaw had been in the Army and had an MC to show for it so he would have understood what needed to be done. No prisoners, bargaining chips etc. The navy counterpart SBS avoids publicity even more

Mad putting it on TV, I wonder if they used a delay? was it in munich were they put the raid on TV live and the terrorists were actually watching the TV so saw them swarming around the building and subsequently caused a bloodbath?

From memory, the power of seeing it on TV - as it happened - might have played a part in keeping middle eastern terrorism out of the UK during the 80s ? It certainly raised the UKs stock worldwide immediately.

fb.watch/1yC8VrKIBu/
Hope this links works ! Pmsl at this story !! So true !

@user1471565182

also night vision in those days was a huge scope thing, it wouldnt have been doable, they have torches attached to guns instead and I seem to remember turned off the power. Flashbangs make nightvision useless as well.

Just under 3kg with the battery and getting on for 18 incbes long from memory. IWS it was called. You needed a bipod to shoot with it even remotely well so generally it got used for observation.

I saw some of the ones they carted to the falklands. They did make a big difference to be fair but I think they were handed out at something ridiculous like 1 a company. Seen some of them stuck to some old Iraqi SLRs aswell. Interestingly the Germans had night vision at the very end of the 2nd world war.

I love the Walts, always a certain type of man. I have no shame admitting I did nothing in my time. Got good at sewing and keeping warm. Eating nettles was as much action as I got.