Do people think "decided to get married" and "getting engaged" as separate things?

[Fressia123]

Wondering as future MIL had a tiny fit because she thought we hadn't told her we got engaged (we made it official on FB) but we told her we had decided to get married back in May.

I think the confusions comes from wanting the 'the big insta worthy proposal' that is such a surprise after the ring has been chosen by both participants.

I think if you decide to get married you decide to get married and you are engaged from that point ring or no ring, but then I don't get or understand deciding to get married then having the big proposal at a later date either on holiday or special date or whatever but then I'm a miserable old bitch that really doesn't get big gestures.

@crumpet

It’s a nonsense though. Once you have both decided to be married, what on Earth is the point of “The Proposal”??? Either you both have a chat and decide to get married, or one party asked the other the question. You don’t need both! WTF is the point of asking a question when it’s already been decided?

I’m sure I remember some celebrity planning their wedding - date was set, dress was picked etc - before some elaborate proposal actually happened. I remember finding it just totally bizarre.. if you’re getting married next month I don’t see what more there is to do?

Our son proposed yesterday. He did it on the understanding it was asking for her hand in marriage. A public commitment as they plan and prepare for their life together. I can’t see it can ever seriously be anything but an agreement to marry. He’d checked with her father last week but although it had loosely been discussed, it was a surprise still when he produced a ring.

It’s hugely exciting for parents. I would be disappointed if we hadn’t had a a FaceTime call after the ring was on her finger. Both we and her parents had Fizz on ice waiting to share their happiness. The engagement is a special moment. What a pity not to share it with those who love you most and who will likely support you as you enter marriage.

I read a thread on here once by a woman who had been dumped and her ex was throwing her out of the house which was in his his name. When posters told her that she had no claim on the house because they weren't married she asked whether "intention to marry" counted for anything. To support her claim that they had "intention to marry" she said that they had been engaged for 16 years !! I cannot imagine a clearer sign that a couple had zero intention to marry, than a 16 year long "engagement". I'm convinced that a lot of people don't understand what a lot of the words related to engagement and marriage actually mean. A few years ago my friend told me that she was having a child free wedding and extended this to my ebf newborn. I told her than I would try to attend the ceremony but wouldn't be able to stay for the reception. She then spent months crying about how I was refusing to go to her wedding. No amount of pointing out that the actual literal wedding was the part I was attending made any difference. It was maddening.

@CherryPavlova

Our son proposed yesterday. He did it on the understanding it was asking for her hand in marriage. A public commitment as they plan and prepare for their life together. I can’t see it can ever seriously be anything but an agreement to marry. He’d checked with her father last week but although it had loosely been discussed, it was a surprise still when he produced a ring.

It’s hugely exciting for parents. I would be disappointed if we hadn’t had a a FaceTime call after the ring was on her finger. Both we and her parents had Fizz on ice waiting to share their happiness. The engagement is a special moment. What a pity not to share it with those who love you most and who will likely support you as you enter marriage.

I’d be very disappointed and upset if my parents and his parents both knew of the impending proposal before I did. Esp if he’d asked my dad somehow for my hand in marriage.

Congrats to your son

I personally see them as the same. But if you just made it official on fb, did something cause that eg someone kneeling down with a ring? In that case I can see why your MIL might want to be told.
If nothing changed other than you putting it on fb then I dint see why your MIL cares.

I have to say, i don't understand the derision towards proposals on MN. My husband had a brilliant time planning ours, he got all our friends involved, and it was the most lovely moment imaginable. Hilariously i had also been planning something, but he beat me to it, so I'll dig it out in 30 years for vow renewals or something similarly twee.

It was genuinely brilliant, i am so glad he did it. Yes, we'd discussed marriage previously, yes i knew it was coming. I still wouldn't trade it.

@GreyHare

I think the confusions comes from wanting the 'the big insta worthy proposal' that is such a surprise after the ring has been chosen by both participants.

I think if you decide to get married you decide to get married and you are engaged from that point ring or no ring, but then I don't get or understand deciding to get married then having the big proposal at a later date either on holiday or special date or whatever but then I'm a miserable old bitch that really doesn't get big gestures.

Any room in miserable old bitch corner?

I agree with @ShirleyPhallus me and DP had discussed marriage in an abstract way, knew that we were going to get married one day but weren’t engaged at that point. When he proposed (it certainly wasn’t an Insta thing, it was beautiful and personal) we picked a ring together, told people and started planning our wedding. The agreement had come before, but it we weren’t engaged until that point.

I think it depends on the conversation your had with MIL, if it was a ‘we’re going to get married one day’ thing and then you’ve announced it on Facebook, I can see why she’s feel she’d missed something.

Well nothing has changed. I still have no ring and we set the date back in May! We decided to make it FB official because our wedding date is less than 6 months from now and we actually didn't understand why hadn't done it before. The religious ceremony will be in Oct next if things go as planned.

The moment you agree to get married you are engaged to be married.
That is what it means

Being engaged should be the same as deciding to get married. But for many people it is two separate and very far apart events. Often the engagement is a carrot and stick rather than an actual plan to marry.

Luckily she was delighted, ShirleyPhallus. They had discussed marriage, of course, but the proposal was a surprise. A weekend away, a lovely meal, with pre-arranged co-operation of restaurateur and all the trimmings. We were all just waiting to hear she’d accepted formally. It’s a bit of fun really, drama and romance not usurping her rights.
The conversation with the bride’s father is not permission; no forced marriages in our community. It is rather seeking approval and support. It’s nice. It’s about parents supporting children as they enter a new phase of their life, about redefining relationships and not about ownership.

Isn't this just a misunderstanding? MIL saw on FB that you were engaged and assumed that something had changed (eg he'd given you a ring) and you hadn't told her, but in fact nothing had changed?

I don't think it's that there's a difference between getting engaged and deciding to get married that's the issue here. I think you updating FB has muddied the waters.

Well yes than in your case your MIL just has the wrong end of the stick.

You didn’t discuss getting married in an abstract way as some posters are talking about, you set a date. That’s as definitive as it gets until you’ve actually got married!

Well her question was "so you got engaged and didn't tell me?" We then told her we've had already told her in May.

I think when teenagers get engaged it's often 'Look at how devoted we are', with no real intention to get married.

I think the meaning of engaged has changed for some people to be honest.
I have friends who are engaged with no intention or plans to marry. One has been engaged for 7 years.
Don't understand it personally, but it's not really my business I suppose!

I think it depends on your age. DH and I talked about getting married 'one day' within a fortnight of getting together. As a 20 year old, I wasn't expecting to get married immediately and neither was he, so we didn't see that as being engaged. After we'd been together for 2 years, he asked me to marry him. We set a date at that point (which was 2 years in the future), which gave me time to finish studying and to allow my sister who had emigrated time to save money and annual leave for the trip back. We were definitely engaged to be married, not just engaged for the sake of it!

To my mind they are the same thing. DH had a painfully unromantic conversation with me about getting married and the next day we were looking at dates.

However on MN I discovered they were not the same thing, via women in relationships where they 'had agreed to get married' but years and often babies later were still unhappily waiting for proposals.

No - it's utter rubbish!

You become engaged to be married once you decide to get married - whether that's through a lovely romantic proposal, a bit of a chat, or whatever. You may then decide to get a ring/s to celebrate that - but even if that's done later, you're still engaged.

I've never understood these people who treat 'being engaged' as a separate thing from marriage plans. It's just ignorance and maybe attention seeking.....

I think many couples discuss their future before announcing their engagement. Truthfully we started planning our wedding, viewed venues, before we announced our engagement.
Partly because we wanted to work out our budget and we wanted to have some peace to do it before parents started putting noses in.
It was a bit like that period of time when your pregnant and nobody else knows.

Husband and I just had a conversation- we both liked the register office had a conversation and booked the next available Saturday at a time that worked.
Had a really simple wedding and small gathering at local pub - been married 17 years. Everyone who attended our wedding said it was the loveliest they had other been to - without the faff! We even had the hen/stag the night before as we knew it will be expensive for everyone to travel twice - it meant our friends could enjoy time with us both - we didn’t se each other the night before so avoided the same pubs!
I don’t do fuss and I’m glad we both agreed it felt the right time!

The full phrase is 'engaged to be married'. It just means you've agreed to get married. A proposal is just pointless theatrics if you've already agreed with each other that you're going to get married!

I think you announcing your engagement on fb made it sound like there had been a special proposal to her and she had found out on fb.

I think it’s just a miscommunication that can easily be solved when you tell her there was no second proposal, just your decision in May.