**Trigger Warning**Teacher-Pupil "affairs"?

[HarrietPotterska]

Just reading the thread about scandals at school and was shocked by how many people are saying that there were teacher-pupil relationships. It's touched a nerve for me as I was abused by a teacher, when I was in Year 8.

Does anyone here have experience of this? I'm interested whether people look back and don't consider it abuse? (Mine definitely was, I was 12).

Have NC for this as it's a sensitive topic.

Clearly abusive, OP.

I was the age you were back in the late 70s.

First off, it was clearly illegal. The age of consent has been set at 16 in the UK since the late 19th century.

But even by the very much slacker standards of the time (I remember 15 year old contemporaries of mine boasting about sex with guys in bands they'd gone to see - I look back and think those band members were abusive shits; and male staff in youth groups I belonged to openly having "relationships" with 16 and 17 year olds), I think back in the 70s we'd all have recognised a teacher molesting a 12 year old was a nonce.

However, what was done about it might well have been different. My uncle discovered one of the teachers at my cousin's school was groping her under the pretext of bending over her desk to look at her work (she would have been about 12). My uncle simply moved her to a different school, rather than making a complaint. I don't think many people would have gone to the police. There was a sense in the 70s that decent, on the ball parents knew this happened and moved their children out if harm's way; rubbish parents victim-blamed.

Happened at my high school in the late 70s. Two male teachers were in relationships with sixth formers, one went on to marry. No idea if it lasted. One day, when I was in 5th form, so 15, my physics teacher, who was a disgusting letch in platform shoes, didn't appear, which was a relief as he was always breathing down my neck and straightening my tie. Turned out he'd been arrested for (abusing) having a relationship with another 15 year old. The girl was so quiet and studious, one of the brightest in the year. He served time for that. I saw him in town a couple of years later so I faked a sudden interest in something in a shop window. He walked past and said "No need to ignore me Miss 'Smith', I won't bite you". Absolutely shameless.

@EggbertHeartsTina I'm so sorry to hear this. It must be a very difficult thing to try and process, mentally. Do you have anyone trusted that you could talk to IRL? Or have you ever thought of any counselling? I'm trying to help a good friend deal with past sexual abuse at the moment and I can't tell you the progress she's made just having it "in the open" with me and being able to discuss it.

It’s actually a specific criminal offence for a teacher to have a sexual relationship with a pupil under 18. This is in addition to other obvious offences of sexual activity with a child with younger pupils. Clearly it’s abuse, there’s a massive power imbalance there, even if the victim is a 6th former and consider themselves to be consenting.

I was a teen in a school where there were pupil teacher flings, which I’m really shocked by looking back. I believe all of them were wrong and abusive

None of the kids were under 16 and even in the 1990s a relationship by any older person (even a fellow pupil say 16,17,18) with a year 8 would have been considered very wrong.

It is now jennifer, at the time it wouldn’t have been.

@alljustamoopoint

It is now jennifer, at the time it wouldn’t have been.

It wouldn't have been a crime because he was her teacher.

It would have been a crime because she was 12 years old.

As I said upthread even in the 70s we knew it was wrong and illegal for an adult man to have sex with a 12 year old.

@alljustamoopoint

The problem is, many normal practices from the past are now rightly considered abuse. It’s hard to apply 2020 judgement onto 1990 practices.

No, the problem is abusive behaviour was put down as normal practice.

This was abuse op - I would contact a relevant organisation for support.

If you were under 13 consent it would have been statutory rape

Ignore the word consent I meant it would have been absolutely clear that consent was totally irrelevant to the nature of the crime, as it would have been statutory rape even then

It would have been a crime over 13 as well if you were under 16, “consenting“ or not as this is and always would have been seen as abusive

I have just seen you say you were 12, yes that was statutory rape op. I am so so sorry

But we can’t retrospectively prosecute nicer

@alljustamoopoint

But we can’t retrospectively prosecute nicer

In OP's case ,sure we can. She was 12. A crime now and a crime then.

@CaraDuneRedux sorry I was meaning more the 16-18 year olds in relation to a teacher having a sexual relationship with a sixth former, rather than the younger children. The position of trust offences were designed to protect the 16-18 year olds who thought they were consenting, when in fact they were being groomed and abused.
Thankfully with the 2003 sexual offences act, children are better protected than they were back in the 70’s.
I bet most of us can remember the sleazy teachers.

@alljustamoopoint

But we can’t retrospectively prosecute nicer

Of course we can - prosecutions for historic sexual abuse happen quite frequently. There is no statute of limitations for rape in the UK.

The age of consent has been 16 since the late 19th century. A teacher raping a 12 year old is clearly illegal, and would have been so back when the OP was 12.

The question here is whether it would help OP to report. OP . You can report if you think doing so would be psychologically helpful to you; by the same token, you don't have to if you think it would re-traumatise you.

But what this man did was rape, and was both morally wrong and illegal, even at the time it happened.

I'm sorry that happened to you op

The only teacher student relationship I knew of at my school was between a sixth former and a young geography teacher. This was in the late 90s. She was over 16 but it clearly should never have happened. He ended up leaving teaching (before he was forced to I imagine!) and they did actually stay together for a few years afterwards.

Happened to me. Was with this (creep) from 15 to 21. From the time I was in sixth form it was known about and frowned upon but common knowledge. Undoubtedly abusive and I know he at least tried to do it again after me. He is still teaching to the best of my knowledge.

Later became a teacher myself and married a teacher (not the creep) and we worked together in a school where a male PE teacher was caught with a girl in the lower sixth. I’m glad to say he was sacked and barred from teaching by the GTC. I just wish it was something that they were applying retrospectively. In my opinion if you’ve done it once, you’ll do it again or at least try to. The boundaries you have to cross in order to get to the point you’re fucking a pupil is INSANE. It’s grooming, nothing less.

Yes sorry comeon I was replying to a poster about sixth formers. Sorry if I wasn’t clear.

A head of year at my school was found out to have kissed one pupil, messaged 5 or 6 different pupils inappropriately as soon as they'd left school telling them things he wanted to do to them, what he thought of them whilst he was teaching them etc, he turned up at one pupil's house pretending to drop something off so he could kiss her.

He left and I heard rumours about this but nothing was ever properly mentioned. Googled his name a few years later and found the professional conduct panel report detailing everything. He'd been working there for 8 years! He was banned from teaching but no other punishment.

I am so sorry this happened to you op 💐

@alljustamoopoint

But we can’t retrospectively prosecute nicer

Yes, we can.

Historic sex crimes absolutely can and are being prosecuted but the decision whether to do that is absolutely up to the victim

I commented on that thread.

I used the word 'affair' for teacher and 6th former situation, more as that's what we called it at the time, sort of quote. We knew it was wrong but the language around certain abuse was used to minimised what was going on.

It was abuse, I knew it then and I still know it now.

Sorry if you thought I used the word affair to minimise it. I used affair in a kind of way, as in we all knew it was not but didn't have the words and language to nail it for what it was.

it still shocks me now looking back, at the amount of men (early 20s +) who were 'seeing' (again ) 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 year olds, picking them up from school and their homes in cars, and parents and teachers never batted and eyelid.

I was 14 and had a of 'boyfriend' of 23, no one gave a shit.

A friend's parent did get involved once when her 14yo daughter had 'sex' (abused) with a 25 year old at a party. The police said to her mum that her daughter consented, so no case at all, and the basic tone from the police was don't bother making a scene because at the end of the your daughter is a slag because she wanted it.

But we can't prosecute for something that was legal at the time (a pupil over 16 in a relationship with a teacher)
It is NOW illegal.
But it used to be legal.

Obvs what the OP is talking about was illegal.