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Original poster

Pen licences

120 replies

JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 15:42

Eldest has just hit year 4 which is when pen licences start getting handed out. I had no idea of their existence until this week.

Have they always been a thing? I didn’t grow up here - we just started using pens halfway through year 4.

They seem pretty grim to me, but that may be because I’ve got a 9yo next to me who’s just been crying that he’s useless, he tries really hard at his handwriting and he’s so ashamed that he didn’t get it.

Is there any evidence that they have a net benefit? I would have thought that for every child who’s spurred on by the desire to get one, you’d get another who’s massively demotivated by it.

OP posts:
Original poster
JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 17:50

@BogRollBOGOF So glad your boy has someone fighting his corner!

We had to do 4 hours a week of typing in year 9 and 10 at my girls’ school in the early 90s. We all complained bitterly about it because few of us planned to be secretaries or typists but we all agree now that it was the most useful part of our entire educations - albeit inadvertently!

I’m a bit baffled why learning to type properly isn’t a core part of the primary curriculum.

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mouseistrapped · 22/10/2020 18:02

I don't mean to sound harsh but you seem resigned that because he sees his 2 friends get one it's utterly demotivated him and is therefore detrimental.

Your son (and as parents) need to work on that reaction and this can be an opportunity for you. I wouldn't be happy with my child responding at others excelling in such a resigned fashion - part of life is dealing with others doing well and coping with that and it's exactly this kind of exposure if this kind of situation that will help your son in the end.

It's natural to want to protect our children to not have to feel disappointment, to feel jealousy , feel the failure feeling but I strongly believe it's really important.

Life throws lots of disappointments and I feel they need exactly that exposure to get more resilient as it's my (non professional opinion) actually helps a child's self esteem - Shying away is the issue. The fact is he needs to put in some hard slog to get his pen licence first life lesson and he can do it !

I say this as my son can be like it and I've worked hard on changing this reaction from him but I do believe they need to just sit and feel uncomfortable feelings in order to face them. Then when they achieve better it's a monumental boost !

Good luck !

IHateCoronavirus · 22/10/2020 18:04

I have no evidence op, and I’m sorry DS is struggling and feeling demotivated. Would he respond well to a “we’ll show them” type attitude?
If and when he cracks it, he will know because it has been down to his hard work and dedication, a good life lesson. It may not be easy, but life isn’t easy and doesn’t always go the way we want it to. We just have to pick ourselves up and carry on.
Best of luck to him Bear

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

9 year olds Primary education
Original poster
JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 18:12

I don't mean to sound harsh but you seem resigned that because he sees his 2 friends get one it's utterly demotivated him and is therefore detrimental.

Please be assured that I’m not. We’ve been working very hard on his resilience for years now as it is something he does struggle with. We are trying to give him lots of tactics to deal with it, and rest assured that we will help him to push through this too.

He’s had plenty of failures and disappointments and we’ve ensured he faces them. He’s not coddled. It is something he finds tough, so we’re constantly working on his resilience.

However he doesn’t feel the ‘monumental boost’ that yours does when it’s achieved - I’m glad yours does! I think he would find it easier if he did feel that payoff after a lot of hard work - and why I think he (now) quite thrives in graduates systems but is thrown by a binary one like this.

As I said upthread, I have no issue with my kids failing, if what they’re failing at has value. Which is why I started this thread - to ask if there is a net benefit to this particular practice.

OP posts:
movingonup20 · 22/10/2020 18:14

Never heard of this, my DD's are older but pretty sure they just started using pens when they went to junior school

Fooshufflewickbannanapants · 22/10/2020 18:15

We weren't allowed a pen until we had neat handwriting (I'm 45) I left junior school never having got past the pencil stage! I want arsed tbh but it would piss me off hugely if this applied now at school as my youngest has cp and problems with his motor skills.

Original poster
JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 18:17

Would he respond well to a “we’ll show them” type attitude?

Sadly no! We have a lot of tactics and methods we use to help support him in building his resilience - I didn’t list them at the start of the thread as what I was really interested in finding out whether there was an evidence base on this one as it seems pretty bizarre to me.

But perhaps I should have made it clear at the start of the thread that we are working on this reactions to these sorts of situations! The fact remains that he doesn’t find these sorts of things motivational, unfortunately - he responds a lot better to intrinsic rather than extrinsic reward and motivation which is frankly probably better in the long run but he still needs to learn to deal with the extrinsic factors.

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Sara2000 · 22/10/2020 18:18

DS never got his. He has dyspraxia and still struggles with writing ar 13.its like many other stupid 'rewards' school dish out.

Bickles · 22/10/2020 18:20

DS year 4- no mention of this but not surprising as his handwriting is awful! I blame teaching cursive to just turned 4 year olds. His SPAG, vocabulary and understanding are above average.
He was made a free reader first in the class halfway through year 3, so as long as this gets as much fanfare (hopefully none!) as pen licences I am fine with it.

Nutrigrainygoodness · 22/10/2020 18:24

Dd got her 'pen licence' in year 4, but her writing has never been great.
IMHO primary school put to much time and effort into making kids write joined up. Why is it still a thing?
Dd started secondary school in September, and I said don't write joined up, and her writing has improved 200% its so.much clearer and neater, because she's not thinking about where she has to join it up.

obviouslymarvellous · 22/10/2020 18:29

Loathe the bloody pen licenses! Our school does them in year 3 Hmm ds who is now in high school didn't even get one! He was devastated got the mickey taken out of him for being the only child that didn't!
Twin dd's one with asd & dcd and other with dcd both struggle so much with writing, got theirs the last day of year 3. All year we had tears and constant "when will I get my licence" I spoke to school who couldn't have cared any less if they tried!
Hate shit like this, one size does not fit all and it just highlights further kids who do struggle

obviouslymarvellous · 22/10/2020 18:34

I don't understand either why children need to learn cursive writing for sats. Surely neat writing is better than making a complete mess with cursive, it's just making some children try to do something they clearly aren't ready for yet!

BikeRunSki · 22/10/2020 18:38

It’s a thing. It was a thing 40 years ago! I never got one. I changed schools/countries a lot And never had the “right” writing for the school I was at.

DuckbilledSplatterPuff · 22/10/2020 18:54

We've always been at the wrong end of the blasted pen licences. It causes so much division and put down in classes. Its horrible. Horrible Horrible. Middle DC got presented with theirs at the very end of term as the last in the class which he said was worse than quietly forgetting about it.
having said that if they struggle with writing as many boys do, pencils are easier, the "handwriting" pens they had at school were really felt pens and made big smudges and blots if you rested them too long on the page.
I got them those rub out correctable pens to use at home - Frixions as left handers so they wouldn't smudge.
Don't worry. Your DC will get there.
And we also did activities like clay, pastry and Lego etc to help train their fingers.

gretagreengrapes · 22/10/2020 18:57

These have definitely been a thing for a long time. I remember getting one in the year 2000 and being ecstatic at being able to write with one of those Berol handwriting pens. Everyone did get one eventually, spread out over a few months. If he's only just gone into year 4 he's got loads of time don't worry.

pastandpresent · 22/10/2020 19:02

At my dc's primary, some children got it as soon as they started yr3. My dc got it quite late, I think it was end of yr4.
We were never informed of the details, but just knew that existed since my dc told me his friend got the first one in the year group. He didn't really care much about it, but still quite happy when hegot them in the end.
My dc really struggled with writing. We did a lot of fine/gross motor strengthening work as well as actual practice writing.

I do think it's worth it, be able to write faster and neat benefit the children.

goatyogawithphil · 22/10/2020 19:03

magiclinkhandwriting.com/the-sad-truth-behind-the-pen-licence/

This sums up why I hate pen licences.

TheSmallClangerWhistlesAgain · 22/10/2020 19:08

DD (age 22) had this at school but the criteria were very loose. Something like being able to write on a line and not stab anyone with your pencil. All of her class moved to pens at about the same time.

We all got given a Berol Handwriting pen in 1st year juniors. No other pens were allowed until the following year, then it was fountain pens only. Making kids use a bloody fountain pen is madness. Mess, fiddliness and endless opportunities to faff about with cartridges and nibs.

mouseistrapped · 22/10/2020 19:18

I agree with you that the school could have warned about this in earlier years - def does not help when things are a shock.

I have a laminated sheet (we are year 1) just of lead in a-z that he does when he gets home from school and it takes 5 mins but the idea is that he can do half , a quarter or all of it but he knows he needs to take his time and just needs to be neat as supposed to doing all letters. Wondering if there is a way it can be made fun ? Rewarding like pocket money tied in ? Hope it gets easier for you

Original poster
JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 19:32

I’m not actually too worried about when or even whether he gets it 😁.

He’s been working hard at his handwriting for its own sake and made huge strides over lockdown and this school year, I’m confident he’ll keep improving but TBH it would have been easier without this. However he is who he is, school is what school is, school is unlikely to change so he has to!

Interesting to see that the schools that do it all do it different ways and there seems to be no rhyme or reason as to how it’s applied.

OP posts:
Original poster
JassyRadlett · 22/10/2020 19:37

I have just googled Berol pens and that’s a whole different rabbit hole.

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wegetthejobdone · 22/10/2020 19:41

In Ds's class when they started Year 4 they just gave pens to the remaining 5 or so kids who didn't have a pen license, they had been handing them out since year 2. He still wouldn't have had one now, just got diagnosed with dyspraxia at the start of year 5.

RB68 · 22/10/2020 19:51

I never got my pen licence (we learnt very old fashioned style almost calligraphy writing) but now have excellent handwriting when I focus, and can do calligraphy well enough. But then I was quiet and unassuming in class...

FatGirlShrinking · 22/10/2020 19:58

I hadn't heard of this so just looked up the national curriculum for literacy and this is the year 3/4 lower KS2 handwriting goals so I would assume it's linked to that.

Pen licences
wannabebetter · 22/10/2020 20:01

Never heard of a 'pen licence' do you get points against it for minor infringements & get it forfeited for a big splodge??