Pen licences

[JassyRadlett]

Eldest has just hit year 4 which is when pen licences start getting handed out. I had no idea of their existence until this week.

Have they always been a thing? I didn’t grow up here - we just started using pens halfway through year 4.

They seem pretty grim to me, but that may be because I’ve got a 9yo next to me who’s just been crying that he’s useless, he tries really hard at his handwriting and he’s so ashamed that he didn’t get it.

Is there any evidence that they have a net benefit? I would have thought that for every child who’s spurred on by the desire to get one, you’d get another who’s massively demotivated by it.

My children's school do this (private but friends at state school do this too) and we all agree it's absolutely ridiculous. It's a poor learning tool that can severely discourage some kids. I bought my son (who "failed" his test) a pack of pens and told him to use them instead of the pencils if he wants them.

I want to make it really clear, by the way, that I’ve no objection to my kids failing! Really important lessons to learn and in particular for the kids who struggle more with it to learn how to deal with it.

Pointless failure I do have a bit of an issue with, which is why I boringly keep asking about the evidence on the net benefits of pen licences / more broadly on extrinsic motivation applied in this way.

I hate them. DS is autistic and dyspraxic and it was just another thing to dent his confidence and mark him out as different to his classmates. He types everything now.

Children’s handwriting always takes a big backwards step when pens are introduced. This is another reason for introducing it in year 4 once fine motor skill is of a sufficient level. This gives children a couple of years at least before they get assessed for their writing in Year6 sats. I’m not pro sats. That’s the system and schools with a pen licence are simply trying to get kids to work on their handwriting and take some ownership of it in my professional experience.

It’s part of the process to make children realise that it’s important for their sats as I’ve previously stated.

You’ve stated it, yes. I’m asking if there’s any evidence to support the statement?

There aren’t spelling licences or similar - the point is made strongly enough that spelling is important with regular tests and teacher emphasis on its importance. I’m wondering what the evidence is for the benefit of this particular tactic for handwriting?

The difference between star of the week and pen licenses (the more I read the phrase the more ridiculous is sounds) and, for example, sports trophies is that everyone is meant to get a pen license, it divides children into those who do and those who don’t. Not everyone is meant to get a sports trophy: first, second, third and that’s it (I don’t believe many year 5/6 children are fooled by “participation medals”).

The only professionals I know with beautiful handwriting all happen to be teachers....

I think there is supposed to be something beneficial about the feedback you get from writing with an implement that has friction against the page - pencils & crayons (I’ll rather than felttips etc

@Blueemeraldagain you’ve put your finger on what I was struggling to articulate in terms of the difference!

I was the first in my class to get one 30 years ago. I was so proud.
I worked in year 3 for four years in a row and one of my absolute favourite things was giving out the licence and the pen. Their little beaming faces would make all the handwriting intervention worth while.

This thread has completed baffled me.

To be fair, I am American BUT I lived in the UK for many years and I had two of my three children in UK schools (one up to Year 8). My husband is English and had his entire education in Greater Manchester.

Neither one of us have ever heard of a "pen license".

That's something new we have learned today!

I think there is supposed to be something beneficial about the feedback you get from writing with an implement that has friction against the page - pencils & crayons (I’ll rather than felttips etc

I’m a fountain pen devotee myself but

I also had awful motor skill problems when I was young - lots of OT when I was a preschooler but I was never less than the slowest, worst at anything requiring hand eye coordination, really struggled with handwriting. I probably would never have had a pen licence! And I would have been I’m gutted as it was embarrassing enough to deal with the very visible being shit at anything physical.

Irony is that as an adult I’m a decent runner, play netball, rowed competitively back in the day - mainly because of investment in the skills as an adult rather than just being told I was shit while others sailed ahead naturally. It took me a long time to get over the narrative that I was just bad at those things.

Lucky I was academically bright but I was never left in any doubt that it was largely luck that made learning easier for me.

When I was at Primary In the 70s, they simply gave us all a pen in year 5 and taught us to write with it.

Given that they all have to be able to do their SATS in pen, stopping the "less neat" children from having as much practise as others makes no sense.

@LittleTiger007

I would ask the teacher for criteria. I’m a year 4 teacher and in our school we do indeed give pen licenses (school policy). Once a child can consistently join all their letters and keep writing neat and on the line with a pencil; then they are given a pen license and a pen. It’s usually the girls that get awarded it first and many don’t get one until year 5. I always emphasise that everyone has different strengths and it’s absolutely not a competition. I also point out that many people in good jobs such as doctors have the worst handwriting! So not to be downhearted about it, but to just work on it. It is an element of the year 6 SATS. If a child doesn’t join all their writing neatly by the end of year 6 then they can’t get the top grades which in turn lead to the top sets at high school.. etc. You can blame Michael Gove for that I’m afraid. So making it a priority in Year 4 & 5 is to help best prepare a child for Year 6 SATs. They can still be working on their handwriting in Year 6 and many will be, but if they’ve developed a smooth writing style earlier then it’s one less thing to worry about in Year 6. By the way handwriting had been linked in studies with bike riding (weirdly). Practising one helps with the other and vice versa. Some children will naturally struggle with this and some will get it early on. A good teacher will recognise this and put in extra support and encouragement where needed.

So a child who is issues linking into hypermobility and asd and no dominant hand because of this that the OT doesn't think he will improve massivley due to his physical issues wouldn't be able to get top marks on sats because of handwriting?

I’m a fountain pen devotee myself but

I’m a fountain pen devotee who can’t finish sentences.

It’s a very different style of writing to biros and ballpoints that’s require a lot more pressure to write - I find my hand gets much less tired doing extended writing with a fountain pen.

It is an element of the year 6 SATS. If a child doesn’t join all their writing neatly by the end of year 6 then they can’t get the top grades which in turn lead to the top sets at high school.. etc. You can blame Michael Gove for that I’m afraid. So making it a priority in Year 4 & 5 is to help best prepare a child for Year 6 SATs.

Well, well - did not know this! And eldest DC has been through SATs . Thank you LittleTiger

Youngest DC totally demotivated by the bloody pen license farrago - I ended up issuing one myself in lockdown I was so fed up of it. And when school returned this year and individual school-issued pencil cases were a thing DC cheerfully informed me that there was a pen to use so it was official!

(Now I understand why they’re so obsessed with cursive and joining in the ‘right’ places if it’s a SATs thing. Fucking Gove. What a pointless twat.)

When I was at Primary In the 70s, they simply gave us all a pen in year 5 and taught us to write with it.

Ditto Australia in the 80s. We all changed over at the same time.

It's a thing and it's something that's turned into a Frankenstein version of itself.

What started as a nice way to celebrate handwriting has turned into a big deal, with a minority of people (children and parents) turning it into a competition, and some children getting really disheartened.

To me it also risks unintentionally reinforcing the idea that neat handwriting equals clever child, which seems to negatively affect boys in secondary school in my experience.

Never heard of this. In my day, you were told to do things at school and you did them - they didn't make an event out of everything by awarding certificates. Got given a pen in 3rd year juniors and from then on, used a pen.

Fucking Gove. What a pointless twat.

From personal experience, his own handwriting is not all that.

When was at school in 90s we didn't have pen licenses but we did have to write neatly to get a pen. We didn't do cursive and i struggle so much i didn't start using a pen properly to secondary school.

We didn't do cursive and i struggle so much i didn't start using a pen properly to secondary school.

How weird not to do cursive! We had proper copy books from Year 3. It was a massive deal. And obviously its own reward for speed and ease of writing.

Maybe unsurprising there’s an overcorrection if teaching cursive or script was neglected for a long time?

This sounds utterly mad. I remember everyone getting a fountain pen in P5 and writing with it from then. Gloriously messy ink splots and leaks being all part of the learning curve.

How about telling him it's daft and letting him pick a pen to use at home? I would have sold my soul for a fountain pen with different coloured ink cartridges at that age

It is recommended by one of the specialists who has diagnosed DS with dyslexia, dyspraxia and ASD that he is never put through this ridiculous rigmarole. In y5, he's now begining to write his 1 syllable name accurately, but not much hope for beautifully. We used lockdown to try and focus on improving his typing speed so he can get more use out of it in the classroom.

That's the reality of 21st century life, typing will get you further than lovely handwriting.
Y6 SATs are a stupid anachronism aggravated by Michael Gove rather than meaningful learning for life. Beautiful handwriting has value as one way of developing fine motor control and creating clear work serving an old fashioned, under-resourced education system, but for adults is not a critical skill.

30+ years ago, we were introduced to Berrol Handwriting pens in y3 for "best work", used widely in y4 and cartridge pens for the majority in y5 onwards with no conditions attached. It strikes me as a far more sensible approach allowing plenty of time to get used to a pen rather than disadvantaging the disadvantaged for longest.

Those least likely to get a "pen license" because of co-ordination issues are also likely to struggle with broad areas of the curriculum including the recognition that comes with sports and progressing well through written tasks.

@JassyRadlett

We didn't do cursive and i struggle so much i didn't start using a pen properly to secondary school.

How weird not to do cursive! We had proper copy books from Year 3. It was a massive deal. And obviously its own reward for speed and ease of writing.

Maybe unsurprising there’s an overcorrection if teaching cursive or script was neglected for a long time?

It could be why but after learning that cursive writing is a school school choice and we were told that neat writing for sats was fine it doesn't have to be cursive even now which is why i asked my question above. Also learning how OT hate its as it disadvantages some child specilally those with sen i have to wonder what the point of it is. As long as a child can write its readable and neat as the childs capable of isn't that enough?

How about telling him it's daft and letting him pick a pen to use at home?

If anyone can show me the evidence base for this as a tactic for improving handwriting I will support it to him while-heartedly with science! (Always works well with him.)

Otherwise it’s tempting! I try to make a rule of supporting the school even in its daft moments. Slipped a bit in lockdown as they were really not great - but as long as I can be halfway credible in my support of them, I will.

Helps if I can explain why things are done, though - hence the thread!