How do you handle it when a child you see a lot of is very obviously showing clear signs of autism but the parents genuinely can't see it?

[ZippedyBooBah]

Someone I know, single mum, has a 7 yr old DC. I see them daily (not explaining further as potentially outing) but don't feel I know her well enough to talk to her about this.

I assumed when we first met that her DC was on the spectrum (my 15 yr old is autistic, well what used to be called Asperger's). I didn't mention it because it's none of my business, but as we've got to know them I've realised DC isn't diagnosed and that their mum cannot see any issue at all.

The things that make me wonder are:
Walks on tiptoes
Avoids eye contact
Rarely speaks to me despite seeing me a lot, same for other adults from what I've seen (will completely ignore a "good morning" for example)
Practically has a panic attack if bread or other food isn't cut in the right way (we had a lot of picnics over lockdown so I saw this happen regularly)
Very limited vocabulary - about 50% of what I hear DCsay is just "mama" while jumping up and down trying to show her what they want without using words (ie will say "mama mama" and just tug her to what he wants, and if she refuses or says to use words they will use the absolute minimum to clarify ie "kitchen")
DC makes a lot of fairly expressive "huh" and "ooooh" sounds so you can tell if they don't know what you mean or likes something, but hardly ever speaks to anyone except their mum with actual sentences
Really struggles to relate to other children because DC just does their own thing and doesn't seem to get involved in play or communicate their ideas for a game
Sniffs food, and don't mean like anyone would with a new food, I mean full on sniffing and sometimes licking. Ie I made a cake and offered them a slice - they literally put their nose into the icing of the cake and took a big sniff to decide. I've seen this happen with other foods too. Will also take a handful of food from a shared bowl, lick it and sniff it and rub on their face before putting it on their mums plate (or back in the bowl ) if it doesn't appeal. It's not out of bad manners and being repeatedly told not to doesn't seem to sink in.
Can't use cutlery properly or dress etc, mum has to cut up food and help dress
Won't sleep in own bed (mum is very worn down by this)

It's not that they are a badly behaved or rude child though, I work with children and I do know the difference. This child is fairly quiet and as I said is not deliberately rude or naughty, but it's so obvious to me that there is something else going on. I assumed the school would pick up on it and their mum has told me they are suggesting DC might be dyslexic and she was very affronted by it, saying that 7 is far too young to read and write so she doesn't see it as a problem that they pretty much can't do either yet. Dad sees DC fairly regularly and is a full on QAnon conspiraloon who thinks deep state want to microchip our children so I can't imagine he is likely to pick up on anything either!

WWYD?

(Fully braced for an onslaught of MYOB ⛑️)

Best talk about your own experiences of finding out and suspecting your child Had autism. Not mention her child but let her join up the dots

My bf's son was like this. The rest of us had multiple children and at toddler group when we saw her son sitting alone lining up cars and getting really angry if other children messed up the arrangement, we all quietly made eye contact. He was her only child so she never saw it. But, in his case, it was picked up at playgroup when his behaviours became more obvious.

His dad was definitely on the spectrum and my bf made so many allowances for his behaviour that she just extended these to her son. Having no others to compare to also made it harder for her to realise that, no, that's not what 'all children do'.

So my twins were both diagnosed with autism at 2. They both regressed significantly before that (one very suddenly, one more slowly) and it was so blatantly obvious that there was something going on that I figured any similar child would also be diagnosed very early. I knew plenty of parents who had a big battle getting their child diagnosed because the impact was less blatant, but in our case it was just so completely obvious.

But then I met a mum with a child a couple of years older who was very similar to one of mine but hadn’t been referred to anyone. She told me she was massively offended that nursery and the health visitor kept making out that there was something wrong with him when he was just a bit behind. She pulled him out of nursery and when school went wrong very quickly she pulled him out of school too.

It honestly breaks my heart. I understand how scary it is to accept that there’s a problem, but he’s missed out on so much support and intervention.

I don’t think there’s much you can do to be honest. I tried to gently discuss it and was shot down very quickly. She wouldn’t hear of it.

I assess ASD as part of my job. I would say absolutely nothing unless asked my opinion.

I've been here twice unfortunately. Both times I told the parents. I just couldn't not tell them as they were people I saw regularly and I felt like I was lying to them somehow, by omission. Neither of them ended well in that we are not friends anymore. The first child though was 2 at time and I know now has ASD diagnosis and is doing really well with supports, so I'm happy for him there. The second child hasn't a diagnosis, parents are still not seeing an issue. It's very sad. But I agree with the previous poster who said you need to just reference a lot how you came to a diagnosis for your son, see can the mum put two and two together. It's a difficult situation for you, there isn't a right answer.

If the child is that obviously autistic then the school must have picked up on it. I think you wouldn't be telling her anything that she doesn't already know. It might well be that she keeps that information private for the sake of her child. Again, if she is refusing medical help for her obviously disabled child then the school will be reporting her and they have more of the story than you.

I think at the very most you could mention one or two things that they do that your child used to do and say something like "I didn't know at the time but it turned out that it was because of their autism." I think anything stronger than that risks alienating your friend.

I was a parent who had an obviously autistic child and I didn't realise it until he was actually diagnosed - his pre school referred him and I honestly thought that the assessment would find nothing wrong.

I was grateful for the referral and that he got the help he needs, but if a random parent had 'concerns' about him and told me to refer him I would not be impressed at all.

OTOH I have two children (now adults) who have been assessed (as adults) as being ASD. Neither was picked up at school, my DS was put down as 'disruptive and inattentive' and my DD was 'just quiet'.

So, no, you can't rely on overstretched and underfunded schools to pick up on this. If you're lucky it happens, but if their behaviour isn't 'typically autistic' they may well go down as just difficult children.

If the child really does have a very limited vocabulary and 50% is "mama" and directing without words, there is absolutely no way the school won't be onto that. They might miss the other things, but they can't miss that.

Depends how much they mask at school.

Hi OP, I didn't read the full thread but some thoughts from me - I'm in Scotland so perspective might be slightly different.

• If you mention it to the parents, what outcome are you hoping for? How will assessment and diagnosis just now change things for the better in a real way for the child/family versus not seeking assessment just now? (Up here it's very much "support what you see regardless of diagnosis" so often a diagnosis changes nothing in terms of support, which should already be in place.)
• If the parents aren't ready, you risk losing them as friends by bringing it up. Consider whether they just need more time and maybe wait for them to make the first move unless you're willing to risk the relationship. You might have a gut feeling it's not your place to tell and if so I would follow that.
• I suspect school will be aware and may even have mentioned it or are taking a softly-softly approach to try to keep the parents on board. Hopefully they will be aware of the difficulties and support these as much as possible already so impact of the difficulties will be low.

Hope you figure out the best way forward, it's tricky to get it right! :)

This type of parent dislikes what they see as labels. Their choice. Maybe talk to her about different ways of experiencing the world, Neurotribes or non-neurotypical rather than about autism?

Can you not just mention "Oh when your DC for x or z they do remind me of my eldest, you know the one with autism"

You may well get ranted at but...

Op if she ever mentioned it again I would very casually say, maybe it's autism, there are a few signs there my own ds displayed and leave it at that.

She may go away and have a think... And ask you more, she may not. Your not forcing something on her... She can then choose to ask you more.

This child must be on the SEN register at school, with or without the parents' consent, if his writing skills are so limited. Most schools would be arranging further support for him, if only to try to improve his results and therefore their own SATs statistics.

It's surprising that the mother expresses her view that having SEN is a stigma around you, given your child's own difficulties. All I can think of is maybe steering the conversation round to your own child and talking about what led to him being diagnosed, and also talking about the positives of autism and how much having targeted help has (I hope!) assisted him.

It’s laughable people think schools would have picked up on a child having asd. I have four dc with autism three different schools. Asd was not recognised in school for any of my dc. With two of the dc even when my children were on the pathway the schools told us our dc were not autistic, and post diagnosis have only grudging accepted it.

I am working with a teenager at the moment who has a diagnosis of ASD amongst other co-morbid conditions.

Unfortunately, if the parents do not wish to engage with school and other services on this there is very little you will be able to do to change their minds until the wheels come off spectacularly. Said teen is supposed to be taking their exams this year and parents have suddenly decided to ask for help.

Unfortunately for some agencies this is seen as too little, too late and they have declined referrals which would get the teen and their family an awful lot of much needed help. So I am reduced to chasing a teenager round school because their parents wouldn't do anything earlier in their life.

It does not bode well for your friend's child if they continue down this path and ASD traits are as obvious as you suggest.

I would probably pursue it from the point that if school want to do assessments etc, then encourage parents to engage as they won't find what isn't there. ie 'if you're not worried that X has issues, by letting school etc do their assessments you're showing that you have nothing to worry about'. It might just be enough.

To clarify - though they definitely have a much more limited vocab than most 7 yr olds, they can and do speak if absolutely necessary or the only way to get what they want. They don't engage in conversation though. Also they don't respond to greetings like "good morning" or "hey how are you today". They just give the look.

I have heard them speak to my DC but really not much. They mostly ignore me or other adults even when asked a direct question. It's not shyness, I can't explain it but it's definitely not.

Anyway. After seeing the general feeling on this, I'm not going to say anything direct, just carry on being vaguely supportive and mentioning my experience with my older DC where appropriate (he is 15 and has noticed the same things btw and is baffled as to why I haven't mentioned it to her, he's very... direct... and thinks someone should just tell her! I've had to tell him Very Firmly that it would be rude and unhelpful to just come out with it like that).

I have a friend whose DC also shows many autistic traits, and I had wondered if I should mention it to her or not. Having read this thread, I’m glad I’ve never said anything. The child in question is now 7, doesn’t play with other children and is a great stickler for rules and routine. My friend says he doesn’t understand other kids because he’s an only child and used to adult company.

This is really hard.
I have a friend who has a dd now 14. I have been very conscious that something was wrong since I first met them when dd was about 7.
At the time her nephew was in the process of being diagnosed. The whole family resisted, he is really severe and goes to a special school now, non verbal etc.

I spent AGES with her explaining and talking her through what autism was and things that could help etc. I arranged a meeting with my friend who's son has ASD etc so she could try and understand. She eventually got it, and then she was helping her family to get it. Family all Eastern European and it was unthinkable and they had no framework to process it. Embarrased by the diagnosis etc.

So it was really hard to talk to her about her dd, who is very, very intelligent, but socially struggled.

I then started tutoring her dd aged 9, and was then able to drip, drip talk to her about it. Some of what was going on at home then came out (massive melt downs). By age 11 she totally agreed that dd probably was, but couldn't see the need for a diagnosis, it was obvious that her dh was probably on the spectrum too. Her dh refused to even consider a diagnosis. As she was so clever at school, they had no concerns, depsite her complete inability to relate to other kids

She went to super selective grammar, at at age 13, had a massive break down. Finally they started down the route of diagnosis and support and help.
Since then the other 2 nephews have been diagnosed, and they have now started the process with their dd's little brother.

I really wish that I could have pursuaded her to get support earlier for her dd. So many things could have been avoided, and, her dd might have got support in building relationships and making friends.
She said to me recently that she oculdnt' imagine her dd ever living independently as an adult due to her mental health

A long post to say, stand by her and gently try and show her, for her ds sake.

I should add, I spent that time with her explaining, becuase she was asking, I did not offer it unasked. She had never heard of autism and didn't understand it, it took weeks before she really got that there was no 'cure'

Not getting all this sadness. No kid gets interventions just for being autistic. They only get it if falling behind which isn’t necessarily always the case if you have autism.

School will pick up if behind academically.

I find all the armchair diagnostic detectives and group eye rolling really offensive.

My daughter is going through screening for autism. She is bright.Struggled to make friends originally but has ended up with a lot. She learnt to mask and has had some mental health difficulties recently( hence the screening) but frankly a diagnosis years ago wouldn't have made a bit of difference. She wouldn’t have had any help academically or socially due to being a masking master.

Going forward it may help her to understand the way her brain works, it may not. It is for us to decide when we’re ready.

The thought of so called amateur autism experts collectively diagnosing her with raised eyebrows behind my back and thinking we’re shit parents for not rushing to slap a label on her is really upsetting as I’m sure it would be for the op’s friend.

Fyi just so you’re aware children with autism vary hugely. My dd hasn’t ever lined up cars or flapped.

@AldiAisleofCrap I’m really sorry to hear your experience but it’s simply not true to claim that schools never pick up on ASD. I’ve encountered this situation a fair number of times in schools but we have to be so careful how we broach the subject and if parents are totally resistant to any hint of additional needs there is very little we can do sadly.

I've noticed behaviours in 3 DC that made me think ASD. The first had a sibling with ASD & his mother insisted it wasn't that until he was about 6yo & the school pointed out that it presented differently in him to his sibling. The second also wasn't picked up until he was in school & the mum asked me if I thought it was likely after the school dropped hints. The third is 10 &, AFAIK, the parents now acknowledge that he struggles with some things & it's not "just a phase" but refuse to "label" him with an actual diagnosis.

I'm just a mum with a child with ASD & some amount of training in child development, I'm not an expert in any way, so I've never mentioned my suspicions to any of the parents. I'm happy to discuss my DS's issues & might draw parallels between his struggles & their DC's & I'd be honest if asked outright but in a "if my DC displayed these behaviours I'd be seeking an assessment" sort of way. I'd rather play dumb & be around to support them, diagnosis or not, than risk alienating them if they weren't ready to hear it, or if my amateur "diagnosis" was wrong & it caused more issues.

So you have a mutual friend she's closer to? Is it worth mentioning to this friend of they've noticed anything if you think they'd be better able to broach it?