Boundary query - with diagram

[frustrationcentral]

Hi!

Is it possible to find out a clearer way to determine a boundary of a house? We've found a map that we received when buying but it's not overly clear, and in the deeds it states that when looking at the house, we own/are responsible for the left boundary.

We are the middle house. Neighbour B believes they own the hedge that is next to our garden. The hedge runs, as shown, the whole way around our garden on two sides. Neighbour B wants to remove the hedge to extend their driveway.

Please notice where the hedge is - how if you draw a straight line down from where our lawn starts beside our house the hedge is on the neighbours land. However if the boundary is definitely a straight line both sides, then also please notice the path running from our gate (left of house). If the path is our boundary then potentially we own part of neighbour A's garden and the hedge that side?! We don't believe we do.

Any ideas? Our position is we're concerned about Neighbour B claiming part of our land - and the implications when we move in the future. Also if the hedge belongs to us and is then replaced with a vehicle then that'll be an eye sore ( and loss of privacy)

Is there some way to find out for definite?

Bump!

Normally you would commission a property surveyor and your neighbour would get their own and the two surveyors would both come and do an inspection and then they go into a kind of conflab and see if they can reach a consensus. If they can’t then you can get stuck in endless very expensive legal action. But go to a surveyor first as they are more likely to be able to represent you without getting you into a big legal battle (and any lawyer would go and commission a surveyor anyway).

Thanks Suzie, sounds complicated! We'd really rather not have to go down that sort of route - neighbour B are actually good friends of ours, we just want to know where we stand. We don't want to lose the hedge if we can help it, but don't want to fall out over it

I wondered if there was a way to get a clearer plan of the boundaries of the road. We believe our neighbours think the hedge is theirs as it runs in a straight line from their gate - we're just not sure that's quite right when you look at our other side neighbours and their gardens location

Can you have a look at the actual land registry? That would tell you exactly where the bondery line is.

Owning the boundary and owning the hedge are two slightly different things. It is worth downloading the land registry records for your property, but they are probably what you got when you purchased your house. But, if they are in digital form maybe you can blow it up larger and get the ruler out?!

That's an idea - thanks both! It's annoying as the copy we have is a rough old photo copy so not easy to work out at all

When I downloaded mine it actually had a small triangle (I think it was on a key for the diagram) which marked my boundry side to maintain (fence) and which land I own out the front was marked in red.

The easiest way to judge where the boundary line is is to compare the land registry title plans for your property and the neighbours' with what is on the ground. Does the boundary line on the plan run from a wall or fixed structure? Not the hedge which may be to one side of the boundary line. Is the boundary line in line with a structure opposite? It's notoriously difficult to say where a boundary is accurately on the ground without being able to cross reference with fixed points.

The hedge is a boundary structure, not the actual boundary line.

Obviously the neighbours don't have the right to use your land to extend their driveway - if you were to replace the hedge with a fence would they have more space or not?

You can download both title registers and title plans from the gov.uk Land Registry web page for £12 for the four documents.

@wowfudge , I think if a fence were to be put in its place they'd not add much space at all. One of our issues is them parking so close to our grass that they'd have to exit the vehicle onto our garden! Whilst we're good friends with them, we are private people: our lounge window is by the garden. We also believe their intention is to buy a camper which is what will be parked there. The hedge is 6ft- it creates total privacy.

The deeds we have appear to show a straight line being drawn. Which is fine, but doesn't make any sense with regard to neighbour A!

We've got a couple of solutions - fence/ could thin out the hedge etc but obviously that's only suitable if it's our hedge. It's weird, the whole road is made up like our garden, so double drive, garden in front of lounge and hedge to the side/front. Everyone maintains their garden and hedge around their garden. Our neighbours are on a corner so their garden is different. As far as we're aware neighbour B are the only ones who believe they own the hedge to the left of their house. We're not going to fight for it, just seems odd! Weirdly when the fence fell down in our garden ( left as you look at the house) they queried if they owned that too - even though they'd just redone the fence the other side of their garden - as if they own all sides. Maybe they do!

if you draw a straight line down from where our lawn starts beside our house the hedge is on the neighbours land. However if the boundary is definitely a straight line both sides, then also please notice the path running from our gate (left of house). If the path is our boundary then potentially we own part of neighbour A's garden and the hedge that side?

Yeah we have that arrangement with our neighbours. We own 40cm of one sides lawn and the other side own half our hedge.

I would leave neighbour A out of it and not mention that at all - it's not material to the issue in hand. Just deal with the boundary in question. Neighbour B could reverse a camper van onto their existing drive beside the hedge and leave it at that. I would be clear that if the hedge were to be removed you would replace it with a six foot fence on your side of the boundary line in order to preserve your privacy and you'd rather see a hedge than a fence or a parked van. If the hedge is theirs then you can't stop them removing it, but you can put your own structure in its place on your side of the boundary line.

If you are clear you will put a fence up this may stop them from going to the bother of removing the hedge. You don't want them accessing cars or a campervan by walking on your grass just because they can with no hedge there. If the title register states you can't put a fence up between the properties at the front then you would be within your rights to plant your own hedge or other plants in on your side of the boundary line.

Unless there are the remains of an old fence your side of the hedge, thus very clearly indicating the hedge was planted completely in next door's garden, I think it reasonable to assume the trunks of the hedge mark the boundary. Therefore if your neighbour wants to claim the boundary is anywhere on your side of the hedge trunks they really do need to establish that legally. Don't consent to changing a boundary without legal input, you can end up with all sorts of problems when you come to sell if your property footprint in the real world doesn't match the deeds.
As an aside, as your neighbours believe the hedge is theirs, have they reflected that in being the ones to do all the trimming and taking away all the prunings? If they have, it would suggest they're probably genuine in their belief it's theirs whereas if they've left you to cut it back or just done their own side that would indicate they probably know it's not really "theirs" .

Can you download the plan from the land registry (it only costs a few pounds) then post it with anything identifying crossed out? The plans should give a rough idea of where the boundary is once you have scaled up (eg is it exactly in the middle between the houses).

Are the hedges original, were they planted by the developer or a previous occupant? If it was a previous occupant and it is the same type of hedge as the front, then it would make sense that it is your hedge. If the developer planted them, unless the hedge is obviously outside your boundary, then it sounds like it is your hedge based on everyone on the street maintaining the hedge that is on the same side as the fence they maintain. If they were planted by the developer, is there any restrictive covenant about removing the hedge/front garden landscaping?

We've always cut the hedge @Prestel - but tbh neither household is that green fingered so they wouldn't have probably said anything anyway. All the houses along the road do the same - tend to their lawn and both sides of the hedge

@orangenasturtium

Hedges are original as far as we're aware, nothing to say they can't be removed - all that the deeds state is we have to continue having space for 2 cars

Can you download the title document? The but with the words to match that plan.?vIt is likely that the title document refers to other documents, registered at the Land Registry. You can get copies of those and may well find a plan which shows the 'T' marks which indicate who is responsible for maintaining which boundary structure ( boundaries and boundary structures are two different things).

Looking at that picture I would say the. Boundary is exactly in the middle of the 2 houses. The Land Registry plan does not seem to match the layout on the other side of your drive, fortunately this isn't the one you are querying!

Your neighbours side of the hedge looks further out than halfway. I'm not an expert, but had boundary queries before, and think that the edge of a hedge would be an unusual way to mark the boundary as obviously you could grow or trim it by a metre of so!

Is there anything marking exactly halfway between the houses (such as the trunks of the hedge)? If so I would say together this is evidence that the trunks are the boundary.

Looking again, I assumed your last picture was the copy of the land registry map? Actually on the other side of your house it also looks like the boundary is straight and halfway between the houses. If so, I would also say that you do infact own some of your neighbours lawn!

Do you have a fence boundary in the back garden? That might be an easy way to work out where the boundaries at the front are by following them on in a straight line?

I am putting off bedtime, so better stop posting now!

The title plan shows the boundary is the middle of the edge of your building and your neighbours building. The lawn and hedges do not seem to correspond to this from your sketch. The hedges seem to be confusing the issue. From the red line it looks like the hedge in question is on your neighbours land as is part of the lawn.

@sleepingdragon

Do you have a fence boundary in the back garden? That might be an easy way to work out where the boundaries at the front are by following them on in a straight line?

I am putting off bedtime, so better stop posting now!

Yes there's fences both sides, which match up with the paths at the front - so by neighbour A there's a fence running up to our gate, and Neighbour B there's a fence running up to their gate