Social Services - am I naive?

[Autumnwoman]

A FB friend/acquaintance has recently had her children removed by Social Services, pending an X-Ray on a 5-month old baby's rib. She says he was injured by a toy (trying not to be too outing, for her sake).

She seems like a lovely lady - I don't know her well, but she used to do some cleaning at the school where I work. She had a troubled past herself in and out of care, but has always come across to me as trying to make the best for herself and her family. I often see her playing with her children in the park etc.

If she genuinely has had her children removed because of one bruise on a baby (and suspected broken rib), surely this is massively excessive. I understand there are places kids don't often bruise and it can be a cause for concern, but surely removing her children for this is a HUGE step.

Or am I naive, and will there be a massive history, and this is the last straw, as it were? Is this likely to be the tip of an iceberg, or do kids really get removed for one suspicious incident? I want to support her - but want to make sure I'm offering support in good faith.

@nevernotstruggling

The x ray is done before the removal so the pending x ray is bs. X rays come back in a matter of hours surely you have seen casualty.

Not all fractures are immediately visible on an x-ray, particularly with a young baby. You can't see them until they start to heal. Bruising might be the only sign of a broken rib in a baby.

At this point, @Autumnwoman, there is no evidence of a broken rib that you know of other than a bruise. It could just be a bruise. More than 80% of fractured ribs in babies are caused by abuse so it will have raised serious red flags, enough to remove a child. But that doesn't mean your friend's baby has a fractured rib and it doesn't mean she has abused her baby.

@RHOBHfan this is correct.

Why get involved if you don’t know her well? Steer clear of the whole thing. She needs a lawyer and they’ll help her as needed. She’s not a close friend, she may have hurt her very young baby. You’re not doing anything wrong by not offering to help.

CakeGirl2020 Thing is anyone can appear lovely. Even those we think we know well can surprise us with actions sometimes. Maybe this lady that appears lovely, lost her temper and was a cunt to a very small child who couldn’t defend themselves. I wouldn’t be offering any sympathy and I’d be staying clear tbh. Maybe she has had a shitty life but social services have removed her child with suspicious bruising, removing a child is a very last straw decision from social services. A shitty life, doesn’t mean you can harm a child. That poor baby, Its the baby who needs sympathy

^This x1000

To be fair, not everyone seeming lovely is putting on an act, and a baby removed wrongly is going to suffer terribly too!

Bottom line, we need to trust the professionals, and this woman also needs help from professionals - so helping her get the professional help she needs here is a good thing not being naive

@coldbutblueskies

If you want to help her, help her get a suitable solicitor and help her find organisations who help people in her situation such as www.frg.org.uk.

You don't have to decide whether she is a fit mother or whether or not there has been abuse - it would be pretty impossible for you to do so.
Helping her get professional help as per the above is probably the right thing to do. It would not be at all naïve for you to help her do that.

Can you update us once the xray is done? Holding back confidential info obviously. It would just be quite interesting, given some of the comments here.

Thank you. I will pass that on to her, as it's at least something practical.

I know she isn't allowed to attend the xray. She's not a super-close friend, so if she stops updating social media, I wouldn't feel comfortable prying, but I will update if she updates.

Apparently her children are in foster care rather than with a relative, so I wonder if there might be suspicions that her ex-partner has hurt the child, rather than her (though she is adamant that it was falling on the toy that caused the damage).

If they are in foster care it means it's highly likely already gone to court and they are on interim care orders. It also means there are no family members assessed or willing to care for them.

Children can get temporarily removed while investigations take place. They also have to have a child protection medical by paediatricians. As a pp said, maybe they did have an x-ray but there was no one to report it on a weekend, that’s not unusual. And it doesn’t mean the child needs to stay in hospital while waiting for the results so often they get placed in temporary foster care.

Happened to someone I know and it was all basically a big misunderstanding. They didn't remove the baby but did lots of investigation. Turned out to be something easy to overlook but coincidentally in the "wrong" place

If she is playing all this out on social media, social care will take a very dim view of that, it breaches the children’s right to confidentiality.

Yep, not sure her parading the sorry saga on Facebook and you suggesting you do the same on here is at all wise. How would she feel about you inviting randoms to comment on whether or not she harmed her baby?

You sound very invested in her life when you don’t really know her and further speculation on here is in pretty bad taste.

So you are getting all your information off Facebook? She has plastered it for all to see

@AnneLovesGilbert

Yep, not sure her parading the sorry saga on Facebook and you suggesting you do the same on here is at all wise. How would she feel about you inviting randoms to comment on whether or not she harmed her baby?

You sound very invested in her life when you don’t really know her and further speculation on here is in pretty bad taste.

I think that is unfair. I am not invested in her life, more worried about an acquaintance. Something truly unspeakable has happened to her, if she is innocent.

I have changed enough details that it is pretty unlikely she would be recognised. The reason I have asked for advice on here, is that I have had absolutely no dealings with SS. I wanted to know if it was likely, or even possible, that this was an isolated incident, before offering any support. Comments here have shown me that indeed it can be an isolated incident. I have also got a useful websites to pass on to her.

She may not be a close friend, but she is part of my community. And I also think it's important to try and look after each other, and if I can provide anything useful to her, I have done with it.

and then you are telling more people of her drama ?

• done my bit.

Is she asking for help and speculation? Has she asked you and other acquaintances to fill in paperwork or debate whether or not it’s likely to be a lie on her part or a dreadful error by social services? Or is just oversharing on social media?

They’re different things.

I'm afraid I'm a bit cynical regarding the mum saying this is all that has ever happened and would say the SS are very reluctant to take a whole family in to.their care, they are very short of foster carers . As the adoptive mum of two. I can tell you that what actually happened and what BM said happened to my two are widely different. I have an extensive network of other adoptive parents and have seen this before. Noone wants to admit that they might have neglected their children. What I feel you should do is stand back and don't get yourself overinvested.

Contrary to the media, SS remove only when necessary, there may have been previous unexplained injuries, other children with injuries or a on/off partner who is known to SS.

You’re being very naive. Taking a kid away from parents is a huge process, so she would have been known to social services already, and likely not in a good way.

See I know someone who has had all their children removed including two at birth

She claims SS are out to get her because she’s on anti depressants, and she spiels the whole, “SS get a bonus for every newborn they place”

In reality, her partner who she keeps going back to regularly hits her, and she has been in hospital with injuries more than once

@Soubriquet

See I know someone who has had all their children removed including two at birth

She claims SS are out to get her because she’s on anti depressants, and she spiels the whole, “SS get a bonus for every newborn they place”

In reality, her partner who she keeps going back to regularly hits her, and she has been in hospital with injuries more than once

My sons birth mum is sadly similar to this. She has even featured in a trashy mag about children being ‘stolen’ from innocent parents.

Without giving too much detail, this is more or less what she is claiming that happened - a toy digging into the child, after falling, causing the injury

she is adamant that it was falling on the toy that caused the damage

She is actively campaigning for the recall of this toy, which has also been seized for investigation

You do see, even in what you are writing about her, there is a huge inconsistency?

Why is she campaigning for the recall of the toy? Because if the DC just rolled and fell on it, it's nothing to do with the inherent safety of the toy.

The investigation will be to see if the toy matches the shape of the injury.

I’d suggest if all your information is coming from Facebook it won’t be the full story, and you don’t know her well enough to know what’s going on.

Is it perhaps like a jumparoo style toy that the child was strapped into that then fell over and injured his torso? Because I suppose that could warrant recall if it's supposed to be not possible for a baby to tip it over.

I do know families where children are removed due to one injury. Medical evidence is never perfect as to whether it’s accidental or not. Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of ‘soft’ factors that get used - consciously or subconsciously to determine how likely SS will decide it was non accidental. After what I’ve seen professionally I wouldn’t trust that SS always make the right choices (either way).

@CloudyVanilla

Is it perhaps like a jumparoo style toy that the child was strapped into that then fell over and injured his torso? Because I suppose that could warrant recall if it's supposed to be not possible for a baby to tip it over.

Again, I'm being deliberately vague about it, but yes, that sort of thing. Let's say a baby bouncer type thing that had something poking out of it that shouldn't have been.

The sort of thing that sounds unlikely, but potentially plausible.

I feel I've done my bit in passing the details of the website that can provide her help. I won't get involved further.

I had a friend who's a family lawyer, and part of her job was to be the lawyer for paedophiles etc. who wanted access to their kids. I asked her how she could do that job, and her response was that she wanted to make sure they got a fair trial so if and when their access WAS denied, every protocol had been followed. I sort of feel a bit like that - horrified that something awful may have happened, but also wanting to make sure my FB friend does have all the tools she deserves to fight her case.