11yo just cannot get to sleep- how to help?

[Montmartre]

My DS has always had difficulty dropping off to sleep (other than as an infant, when he slept well!) and often takes up to an hour to fall asleep.
He's always had an extremely strong bedtime routine, and is pretty good at getting ready and going to bed, but since he went back to school he is falling asleep later and later.
He claims (I can't verify, but probably correct as there are clock chimes where we live) that it is now 1 o'clock when he falls asleep.
He gets up at 6:45 for school, so this is obviously far from ideal, and he's like a corpse in the morning poor thing.

He used to have anxiety when younger, and didn't sleep with that, but I know him well, and he is not anxious. He has changed schools and gone to secondary now, but the change in routine has been minimal- they are in one classroom all day, teacher comes to them, so not getting stressed and lost wandering round a big new environment. He was also very glad to go to secondary, and is quite mature for an 11yo, and ready to move up. The school day is also 30 minutes shorter than he is used to, and there are no extra-curricular activities at present, so he's not struggling with the changes.

He has good 'sleep hygiene' in that no screens/phones before bed, dark dark room, room is cool and bed is warm etc.

Any ideas on how we can get out of this cycle and get him sleeping well again please?

Usual things - plenty of exercise, reduce sugar, milky drink at bedtime, routine, reduced screen time then but a DowDow. Brilliant way to sleep train. Works well on children and adults. Even if it were anxiety related, sleeplessness makes that worse. It’s hard to stop any anxiety so better to address sleeping first.

Yeah I would say then he can read quietly in his room from 9 to (eg) 10.30 - then it's lights out - look at it this way, his literacy levels will go through the roof!

And really do try to make sure he's active every day - even if he doesn't love it - he's old enough to understand why it's important. I've told both mine they need to do at least one after-school sport - I don't care if it's ballet or sumo wrestling - they can choose but if they no longer enjoy it they have to pick something else!

We found a book called “what to do when you dread your bed” really helped. At 11 he’s at the top end age-wise but it still has lots of good stuff that would help to read. It’s based on CBT and understanding your brain.

One of the things in the book that was transformative for us was starting bedtime routine later. It advises starting the routine so late that there’s no gap between last activity and sleep. This becomes the routine your brain expects rather than lying awake in bed. Then gradually bring the whole thing forward.

We went from bedtime lasting 8-11pm (7yo) to 10-11pm and then moved it forward to 8-9pm.

What stands out is he isn’t getting any exercise. Warm bath, cold room, no screens after 8, enough food in the evening.

cherrypavlova what is a dowdow?

Megbusset we're in a local lockdown area- no clubs at all are running here unfortunately.

neither of mine sleep - both ASD
what helps is: lots of exercise
low sugar
no screens after dinner
bath / milky drink
cool room but warm bed (electric blanket)
dull night light / lava lamp
weighted blanket (this made a real difference)
'story tape'

Yes, you need to let him read. Lying in bed wide awake is just asking for sleeplessness. If he’s quiet and in bed, then there’s no harm to him.

Monterey Cherry Juice is very high in natural melatonin. It’s safe for children; would suggest you buy from a health food shop.

Kiwi fruit too

I don’t think warm bed is ideal. Your temperature need to drop for drowsiness which is why a warm bath helps.

Ear plugs to block out the noise of the chiming clock, perhaps he's subconsciously listening for the chimes and getting anxious the later it gets.

Reading is very good for helping sleep, provided it's an actual book and not a screen. It takes your mind off any buzzing thoughts going round your head and if you're tired, your eyes start to naturally close.

@glitterfarts where do you buy it online?

My DS is the same. Having a lamp on and letting him read if he can't sleep definitely helps. When he was younger story CDs used to do the trick. He feels more secure with a weighted blanket too, and likes to have a lamp on in the room as he's not keen on the dark. He still takes a while to get to sleep but I am the same, it usually takes me an hour to get to sleep on average.

Yeah I take time to fall asleep... DH on the other hand has fallen asleep within a minute of closing his eyes, every night for the past 20 years. It seems like witchcraft to me.

Getting a cat that then slept on my son's bed (obviously can't control where the cat sleeps!) helped my son learn to get to sleep more easily when he was about 12/13. The cat now sleeps elsewhere but it seemed to break the cycle. Also, I think it helps to not make a big deal out of it. If he doesn't sleep, never mind, he can just rest. This takes the pressure off.

I'm afraid he won't eat kiwi or cherry/juice. He has a very restricted range of foods (another indication of anxiety- he stops eating, and he is eating well for him). He actually eats only low amounts of sugar already, as he won't drink anything but water, and he has many foods he won't touch. He won't even have milky drinks any more, though that used to be something he did when smaller.

A weighted blanket may help- he drops off better in my bed, and I have a very heavy coverlet on there.
I will look at getting one of those.

megbusset I used to take longer to drop off...until I had children! Years and years of my eldest not sleeping through completely exhausted me. Now I'm asleep in five minutes flat after collapsing into bed.

Weighted blanket on at least half an hour before he goes to sleep (so let him have that time to read) don’t let him use it all evening or he’ll get too used to the weight (or drop off too early 😂).

[quote catnoir1]@glitterfarts where do you buy it online? [/quote]
dont know about @glitterfarts but i get mine from vitamin grocer - i get the natrol brand - i buy it over the counter in the USA when on holiday - you can get gummies for kids

www.mydodow.com/bundles?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgfWNj5qe7AIVxu7tCh3v3QRrEAAYASAAEgLkCPD_BwE

Worked well for everyone that’s borrowed ours. My GP daughter gave it to my husband when he went through a spell of sleeplessness.

For DS age 10

A weighted blanket+

An echo dot and a routine I set up
On it ...
he says ‘goodnight Alexa’
and it responds with .... an interesting fact (his brain is always whizzing so gives him something to mull over) then tells him to lie down and turn the light low and listen, then plays an 18 minute meditation.

It’s about 90% successful and if not he can run the sequence a second time which often works.

cherryPavlova thank you- that does look like something he'd get on board with.

Podcasts or Audiable work a treat in this house.

@Londonborncatty ah, I see the cherry juice is capsules. He may manage those after all, as he does take a multivit each day. Thanks.