Is it because women tend to be more houseproud than men?

[Anordinarymum]

So many threads on here talking about the end of a marriage with one of the main contributing factors being that men refuse to do housework saying it's not their job - prompt me to ask the following questions..

Is it do you think our own fault for ending up like a maid to our other halves simply because we have a better eye for cleaning and making the house presentable ?

Is it because we get the 'nesting' instinct as a result of having babies and a pattern develops which is hard to break?

I think there is a combination of reasons for women being landed with the responsibility to look after the home; with another one being that men tend to have been looked after by a generation of women who thought is was their job to wait on men hand and foot, and they automatically slide into that role when they get married?

It's s shame when a marriage becomes a toil of a pleasure for the woman simply because her OH is lazy don't you think ?

@jdoejnr1

This sums up the differences well. Men don't buy sofa cushions for their living rooms they buy gaming chairs. So the argument i guess is, why do women try to make men do more work, why don't women just do less?

Nonsense.

This kind of basic stereotyping doesn't help anyone. My FIL is amazingly house proud and is always tidying, cleaning, decorating or sorting.

Before we had DC we were away for a few days with extended family. One family member was a newly single dad with very young children. One eve he didnt know where his DCs toothbrushes were. Several family members, including my DH had a go at him about it. I felt bad that people were criticising, some of whom didnt have DC themselves, and it was a new situation for him.

Fast forward 10+ years, my DH couldnt tell you my DC teachers or tutors name, what class they're in at school etc. His contribution to organising or packing for holiday is chucking his own clothes in a bag 20 min before we leave and realising on day 2 he needs to go shopping as he has only put in 2 pairs of pants

I said to him once "do you remember having a go at xxx because he didnt know where dcs toothbrushes were, but actually you wouldnt have the faintest idea where ours are" His answer was "well of course I would if you weren't here!" 🙄

Expectations are different.

When I had my first home visit my social worker (female) commented on the fact that my home was clean and asked who cleaned it. I doubt she would have asked a woman that. I would have got away with having a bit of a messy and dusty home, a woman with a home like that would be judged much more harshly.

I don’t care what other people think of my flats decoration or cleanliness, I would never change anything before anyone visited, including ‘official’ people.

If someone can’t be bothered to clean and won’t pay for a cleaner it isn’t because they’re a man or woman, its because they’re lazy.

My disorganisation skills are real... I lost a half drunk can of G&T last night because I put it down while distracted by a household query. The struggle is real

DH found it after I'd brushed my teeth and was sitting in bed.

@BogRollBOGOF

My disorganisation skills are real... I lost a half drunk can of G&T last night because I put it down while distracted by a household query. The struggle is real

DH found it after I'd brushed my teeth and was sitting in bed.

I do hope you finished it off

Vanillaandhoney
Nonsense.

This kind of basic stereotyping doesn't help anyone. My FIL is amazingly house proud and is always tidying, cleaning, decorating or sorting.

No it is not stereotyping. It is a real problem on here and that is why I posed the question in the first place.

Social expectations. People expect the woman to be the one who organises anything child and house related, and judge (even unconsciously) if things aren’t up to scratch.

My DM is terminally ill, it’s been a stressful week. My MIL kindly stepped in so my DH and I could go and visit. My DH made all the arrangements for childcare with his mum, not me. Yet when she arrived, she asked me what plans I’d made for the DC’s tea, if I’d got their uniforms for their activity ready, what time I wanted them in bed etc if we weren’t back. She’s not being deliberately obtuse, she just hasn’t thought actually my DH should have organised all that stuff so I don’t have to think about it.

She wouldn’t judge him for the kitchen being messy or the cat litter tray not being emptied, despite he’s working from home and under less stress than me. It wouldn’t occur to him to do more than he usually does because “no one will care”. When we got back she told me she’d “tidied up the kitchen for you”. She’s being kind, I get it. But she would get better off having a word with her son about doing a bit more himself, rather than someone doing it “for me”...

No it is not stereotyping. It is a real problem on here and that is why I posed the question in the first place.

It is stereotyping. Lazy stereotyping at that. Not all men would just buy gaming chairs and not bother to make their homes look nice, and not all women care about housework and buying nice throw pillows.

I know plenty of men who are house proud and who keep lovely homes. Equally, I know plenty of women who don't give two fucks about housework and would happily live in a mess.

The reason it's a problem on here is because you're not going to read threads from women who have fantastic husbands who do their fair share. The nature of forums is you disproportionately hear about people with complaints - therefore you hear the negatives all the time.

My husband is a ”let it build up and then blitz it” type, I clean as I go so it's always relatively tidy (so if we had visitors it's ”plump the cushions” not panic ”hide this junk” tidying).

He's getting to know that washing up is easier to do regularly rather than have nothing to cook with and towering piles of dirty crockery in the utility. Getting there.

How obsessed MNers are with cleaning things baffles me.
DH has a houseproud mother.

No adult in my childhood home was houseproud.

DH does do more housework than I do, probably. He hates our messy house but does not work constantly hard to achieve the standard he wants. Teen DC have similar attitude: moan but only sometimes clean. I don't mind mess so I'm the one who is happy with status quo. :)

If DH wants to divorce me for this situation - fantastic! Just another sign we aren't compatible. How do I persuade him to do that?

@Anordinarymum

Joking aside though, it's the complete lack of everything really.. not just cleaning... why do husbands fall short on child care also.. is it because they are again lazy or perhaps feel their OH does it so much better and then another pattern starts of non compliance ?

It’s LAZINESS nothing more

How obsessed MNers are with cleaning things baffles me

I am not obsessed with cleaning

However I do like a basic level of hygiene, and find if the house gets too messy it becomes more work trying to find stuff like clean school uniform, and it’s a pita having to wash dirty cups before use because the dishwasher isn’t run. A certain level of organisation makes things much easier.

It still falls to me to pick up discarded crisp packets, move everyone’s crap off the kitchen island so I can wipe it down and have space to prepare a meal.

Why? Why do people think it’s ok to leave a plate and mug next to the dishwasher rather than in it? Why do the leave crap on surfaces rather than putting it away? Why do they leave rubbish on the counter above the bin rather than in it? Why do they think it’s ok to leave bottles and caps all over the shower, and the wet towel on the floor?

Because someone else has always picked up after them, to the point they don’t even realise what they’ve done.

If you’ve ever worked in an office and seen cups, mugs, spoons etc dumped in the sink rather than washed up, same mentality.

Dh has got massively better since he was furloughed and I’m still working full time. Almost as if he’s realised stuff stays where he puts it when I’m not around.

I had a friend I was chatting to when she had her first baby. Advised a cleaner as they both worked full time and had other commitments on top.
Her reply? That she didn’t need one, her house didn’t really get dirty or messy. It did, it was just her husband was constantly picking things up, putting washing on, tidying, cleaning etc as he moved around the house. She just hadn’t noticed.

How obsessed MNers are with cleaning things baffles me.

Wanting to live in a clean and tidy house doesn't make people obsessed with cleaning. I really struggle with clutter and I can't relax in a messy home, but because it's kept on top of, it only takes me 20-30 minute a day. It's hardly a huge chunk of time.

It is 100% down to socialisation. Despite being a feminist there is still part of me that wants to be seen as a good mother with a tidy home. It’s fucking ridiculous. Men don’t have that pressure (they have pressure in other areas, such as pressure not to show emotions other than anger).

Socialisation.

@lljkk

How obsessed MNers are with cleaning things baffles me. DH has a houseproud mother. No adult in my childhood home was houseproud.

DH does do more housework than I do, probably. He hates our messy house but does not work constantly hard to achieve the standard he wants. Teen DC have similar attitude: moan but only sometimes clean. I don't mind mess so I'm the one who is happy with status quo. :)

If DH wants to divorce me for this situation - fantastic! Just another sign we aren't compatible. How do I persuade him to do that?

Quite an unusual view. Most people don’t like mess, or dirt. In their homes, as witnessed by your husband and children.

The fact you don’t care doesn’t mean every one else is obsessed, it just means you don’t care.

Ok. I've not read the whole thread but the assumption that this is always a male thing is bollocks.

I am a man.

I was the stay at home dad for our three kids. I currently work as a cleaner and housekeeping in a hotel. I can go do a full day's heavy work cleaning rooms (Covid has upped the level of cleaning sanitizing we do and cut the number of staff - one person per room and it's hard work.) I can come home from a full day's work to find my wife has had a day off from her part-time office job and done FUCK ALL in the way of housework. Nothing. Not even emptied the dishwasher or washing machines I set going before I left for work.

It's not a sex gene linked thing it's a habit and training thing. I've always done 90% of the housework.

She doesn't doesn't see it when it needs doing.

I'm going on strike soon. I'll report back when she runs out of clean underwear.

Beyond men in the late teens, early twenties most single men manage to have perfectly nice tidy house. They dont seem to have any qualms about getting a cleaner for themselves though, even though many women dont even when they have a family and a job.
I think men arent used to thinking if it as their role to make it happen but like a clean, tidy home in equal proprtion to women . Ive seen male and female hoarders.

Economic incentives form part of it - women are more likely to take maternity leave when their children are born, and typically do more housework because they’re in the house more. Because women generally earn less than their male partners, they’re more likely to be SAHM or work PT, and again, because they’re home more tend to do more housework than the FT partner.

Nb this is not the case for everyone, I know in some families women will be the higher earning partner/men can work PT too.

@MotherWol

Economic incentives form part of it - women are more likely to take maternity leave when their children are born, and typically do more housework because they’re in the house more. Because women generally earn less than their male partners, they’re more likely to be SAHM or work PT, and again, because they’re home more tend to do more housework than the FT partner.

Nb this is not the case for everyone, I know in some families women will be the higher earning partner/men can work PT too.

Pay gap is pretty much non existent at the point of having a first child.

Pay gap is pretty much non existent at the point of having a first child

Yes, because that’s the point when women often reduce their hours, look for more flexible work, or take a step back at work in order to care for their children. It then becomes harder to regain the lost ground, and putting the higher earner’s work first becomes ingrained. www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/gender-wage-gap-childcare-penalty

It’s as simple as this: a lot of men see it as women’s work.

It’s the reason for living with a woman in many cases. Otherwise they’d keep their freedom

I think we delude ourselves if we don't see this.

Not all men etc etc

And I DO NOT blame other women for that

[quote MotherWol] Pay gap is pretty much non existent at the point of having a first child

Yes, because that’s the point when women often reduce their hours, look for more flexible work, or take a step back at work in order to care for their children. It then becomes harder to regain the lost ground, and putting the higher earner’s work first becomes ingrained. www.vox.com/2018/2/19/17018380/gender-wage-gap-childcare-penalty[/quote]
Fully agree. But it was suggested that women take maternity leave instead of fathers taking paternity leave to look after children for financial reasons. I simply saying that's rarely the case now.

@DarkmilkAddict

It’s as simple as this: a lot of men see it as women’s work.

It’s the reason for living with a woman in many cases. Otherwise they’d keep their freedom

I think we delude ourselves if we don't see this.

Not all men etc etc

Or, could it be mothers see it as their work rather than fathers? Not all women etc etc