Racial slurs used by non-white people.

[Chaotic45]

I'm so hoping I can explain myself on this thread without causing offence. I am a white woman, I would not use a racial slur ever in any context as I'm firmly of the belief that it's offensive (I'm sorry that's stating the obvious but I felt I should make that crystal clear).

My teenage son feels the same.

He is coming across people in his fathers extended family who do use these words and this weekend he has called them out on it and received an enormous backlash.

In a nutshell they feel he is a snowflake, that's they are using it as banter etc etc.. Their core argument is that some groups of people use these words amongst themselves without causing offence, therefore it's not offensive.

I hope I'm making sense here, without needing to quote actual words.

I am of the opinion that this does not change the fact that the words are offensive and shouldn't be used, but my son has come to me for an actual explanation.

I've struggled to find the right words to explain, beyond that it's different when a group of people towards whom that word is used claim it as their own and use it amongst themselves.

Is there another way to explain this?

First of all it's not 'non white' it's 'people of colour'. A simple phrase but kind of shows how white is still seen as dominant default!

I haven't heard any of those slur words op so can't comment I'm afraid.

@BabyLlamaZen I'm so sorry. I was under the impression that 'people of colour' was now an out of date phrase used mainly in America. This information came from my friend who is mixed heritage.

I did not mean to cause offence, I thought carefully about my choice of words and chose them because in this instance it is the use of the worlds by people who are not white that I'm referring to.

Lesson learned.

A word which is commonly amongst the last insult or intimidation thrown at a member of a minority group before they are attacked or murdered - should never be used by the majority group. If they cant ever "receive" the word, they should never use the word.

If it is offensive, there is no reason to use it. The end.

So his dad’s family are white but using the N word?

Is that the gist of it?

@BabyLlamaZen

I haven't heard any of those slur words op so can't comment I'm afraid.

You’ve never heard the term snow flake?

I’d never thought of the term snow flake as in colour, simply I thought it meant delicate. And applied to everyone, irrelevant of skin tone. I’ve never seen it as a racial slur.

This and the first post shows how difficult it can be to use the right terminology. Even with the best of intents, the right words change, And if you don’t know you can get it wrong and cause offence. Personally I never refer to someone by their skin tone, but would use the term snow flake and think nothing of it.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

So his dad’s family are white but using the N word?

Is that the gist of it?

I'm reading it as they aren't white.

If they cant ever "receive" the word, they should never use the word.

That’s good. I like it.

@Chaotic45

I'm so hoping I can explain myself on this thread without causing offence. I am a white woman, I would not use a racial slur ever in any context as I'm firmly of the belief that it's offensive (I'm sorry that's stating the obvious but I felt I should make that crystal clear).

My teenage son feels the same.

He is coming across people in his fathers extended family who do use these words and this weekend he has called them out on it and received an enormous backlash.

In a nutshell they feel he is a snowflake, that's they are using it as banter etc etc.. Their core argument is that some groups of people use these words amongst themselves without causing offence, therefore it's not offensive.

I hope I'm making sense here, without needing to quote actual words.

I am of the opinion that this does not change the fact that the words are offensive and shouldn't be used, but my son has come to me for an actual explanation.

I've struggled to find the right words to explain, beyond that it's different when a group of people towards whom that word is used claim it as their own and use it amongst themselves.

Is there another way to explain this?

Fair play to your son, it's hard calling out family.

I simply say, I don't agree with or say XYZ because it has been used in a derogatory way to non white people, so we won't ever understand the pain people can feel if we're not in their shoes.

@Mumoftwo1994 thank you that is a great way of putting it.

To clarify (apologies that my OP has caused confusion).

DS's extended family and his dad are white.

They use racial slurs in conversation.

The term snowflake is not a racial slur, they used it as a way of saying DS was too easily offended.

They argue that because people of colour use some of the offensive terms, that it is ok for them to use the too.

Are the extended family using this word black? If so, although the word is derogatory and vile, if they feel empowered by using it amongst themselves then I don’t think it’s for anyone else to police their use of it.

I have heard young Jewish boys greeting each other with the word Yid which to me, as a Jewish Brit i find a repellent term. Again though if people feel stronger by using this insult amongst themselves, I don’t feel I nave the right to say they shouldn’t.

My post crossed with your last one OP. Being white It isn’t ok to use that word imo.

Are you trying to say that your DS'a dad and extended family say the N word because they think it's ok as some people of colour use it normal conversation?

Your son is right.

Your white family members are racist. The excuse they use for racist terms is poor.

@Jalapinot yes that's it. Sorry that I've caused so much confusion.

No need to apologise, you've not done anything wrong here.
Your son is a good boy and your ex in-laws are ignorant.

They argue that because people of colour use some of the offensive terms, that it is ok for them to use the too.

It’s not. It’s racist and makes them sound like bellends. Do they use the words to describe particular groups of people or do they use them because they think there’s some cache to the words? (Either way is unacceptable, obvs.)

I would explain that even amongst black people the use of that word is controversial. Some think it is empowering to take back the word and use it between themselves and others think it should be banned altogether.
As a non black person it should never be used.

So we are talking about the fact that some black people use the N word about themselves or toward other black people and some south asian people use the p word about themselves or toward eachother?

It isn't clear if the extended family are Black, Asian, Mixed or White and it makes a difference.

Some sectors of BAME communities have attempted to "reclaim" pejorative terms in a similar way to the way the some sectors of the gay community now use terms like queer, poof and dyke which used to be considered offensive. This isn't universal though and some people still find these words upsetting.

It is also worth noting that the p word in particular is also still used offensively within the Asian community (Indians might use it as an offensive term about Pakistanis).

The best advice is that white people should steer well clear of these words. The history of such means that it is very offensive and threatening for a white person to use them. Your son is correct to pull up white people using these words. Probably best not to try to police the language that minorities use within their communities though.

@Jalapinot thank you. DS is now refusing to see his dad because he can't make him understand. They have rolled out all the usual cliches and poor DS was so lost trying to make his point. I just wish they weren't so bloody ignorant.

@Lexilooo that's absolutely the issue, and no matter how hard DS tried, his dad would not listed (I was with him when he made the call, because he was so upset).

Maybe sometimes there's no arguing with some people, but DS can't understand why his dad can't see his point.

I suspect it has something to do with the type of person his dad is deep down, which is a hard lesson for DD to learn as he has previously idolised his Dad.

I just want to say thank you to your son for making a stand. That’s very brave of him.

Others have made good statements so I won’t add to that.

I’m black. I don’t use it and I’m vocal about anyone who uses it in my presence.

Hasn’t happened for years, in my experience British black people do not use it amongst themselves.

Obviously I’m not speaking for all black people.

Sadly my mate had to explain it to their mixed child recently. They had heard it on the news 😢

Person of Color originated as a political term of solidarity in the US, a chosen political identity. Some who have been put under that label have spoken and written at length about the issues about people using it to mean 'non-white' - if it ends up being treated the same, it often feels the same. Categorizing disparate groups of people based only on marginalized identities will always have issues and not all of us feel PoC is any better than non-white when it's used to mean non-white rather than a chosen political identity, or that or - the British term - BAME (Black, Asian, Minority/Marginalized Ethnicities) is any better though the latter at least recognizes we're different groups rather than one people.

As pp said, "If they cant ever "receive" the word, they should never use the word".

Slightly expanded on explanation: if some people gave you a really awful abusive insulting nickname, you could choose to make it your own and let those you're friends with use it, have a laugh about it, but those who gave it you, they couldn't be part of the joke, not without your say - it would still come across as an insult.

Now, this is an imperfect oversimplified explanation without the power and social dynaming involved, but many margelized groups do a version of this, and it's why it remains awkward when those outside of it that created or turned a term abusive (medical terms often start fine but turn ableist in wider use) tends to still feel like they're holding power over others and the abuse with those terms.