Black section on MN

[PatricksRum]

I think it would be great if Mumsnet could make a black parents section/ section for black users.

There is a large population of working-class whites in the UK, and elsewhere, who do not feel as if they have benefited much from the much-vaunted 'white privilege'.

Class privilege is definitely a thing. However, it does not negate the existence of white privilege.

The fact that people don't feel privileged doesn't mean that they aren't. It just means that they have never had to think about it.

I agree OP. It's a good idea. Then people can join in as they see fit, same with all the other boards.
It's all about choices. There should be choices for everyone.

@FlatScreenTV01

My White Grandad was born in Jamaica. Don't be such an ignorant sod OP.

What's your white Jamaican grandad got to do with anything?? I bet you think you just won the thread with him don't you?

@SoupDragon

I don't see any which cannot be covered on any other board

Then you aren't listening.

I just worry it's the tip-of-the-spear towards a more-segregated society, rather than a more integrated one.

Do you feel the same about the disability and sexuality based boards?

No, I think I am listening, I'm just not agreeing that "black parenting" is a thing, anymore than "white parenting" or "asian parenting" is.

That is an interesting question about the disability and sexuality-based boards. My initial response is that I would expect a separate disability board under "Health" (I don't know what the actual arborescence is on MN), because there are lots of different disabilities which would get lost in a general health board. The sexuality one is less obvious, though.

@HelloToMyKitty

If you want a space specifically to discuss these issues, that’s fine and really up to MNHQ to provide it.

But this:

We ask nicely. White people still kill us
We protest peacefully. White people still kill us

is incredibly inflammatory and actually not statistically true. What’s the point of such overblown rhetoric?

The things OP says ARE true. Literally true. Black people have been and continue to be killed over and over again while protesting politely... in fact they get killed and maimed even when they are NOT protesting - when they are going about their business, utterly compliant with all laws, not even 'asking politely' for anything. In this context, being told to speak more politely (when the OP is doing nothing more than using an acronym used hundreds of times a day on this site by white people, about far more trivial issues) is incredibly offensive. It is not inflammatory to say so,just because you can't bear to face the truth.

I'm just not agreeing that "black parenting" is a thing, anymore than "white parenting" or "asian parenting" is.
As a parent of a white child, do you look at the ethnic composition of schools before you choose them for your child?
Do you have to work out how to explain to your child that "where are you from" is not a neutral question?
Do you look all over the place for dolls that mirror your child's skin?
Books that reflect their heritage?

@Smallsteps88

Urgh, 2 consecutive posts without an engagement with the argument. I know what I consider boring.

You don’t have an argument. You have a “but but but what about meeeee” whinge.

I'm not whingeing about me. My life's fine. What I am concerned about is the entrenchment of identification with/by skin colour, and the idea that black people should have "black boards" and "black businesses", wondering if it will inevitably lead to "black schools", "black hospitals" or "black police", none of which I think will be particularly beneficial to society.

Everyone is quite right in the sense that "FFS, it's a board on MN, not 1960s South Africa", but I still feel it is the wrong direction of travel, and that the basic "skin colour doesn't matter" I grew up with is better but being discarded.

drspouse thank you.

Skin colour does matter though. Unfortunately.

@drspouse

I'm just not agreeing that "black parenting" is a thing, anymore than "white parenting" or "asian parenting" is. As a parent of a white child, do you look at the ethnic composition of schools before you choose them for your child? Do you have to work out how to explain to your child that "where are you from" is not a neutral question? Do you look all over the place for dolls that mirror your child's skin? Books that reflect their heritage?

As a person who has lazily assumed that I am white and thus never had to do this - I lived in West Africa for 3 years. I am well aware of racial profiling, my children being white and yet questioned and being discarded as "not really African" (despite the fact that they 100% are), and sticking out in school / society in general. I'm not arguing that happens in society and that it sucks. I'm arguing that I don't think the way forward is for ethnic minorities, or indeed ethnic majorities, to section themselves off.

What I am concerned about is the entrenchment of identification with/by skin colour, and the idea that black people should have "black boards" and "black businesses", wondering if it will inevitably lead to "black schools", "black hospitals" or "black police", none of which I think will be particularly beneficial to society.

Yes, I’m sure that’s what a black MNer board will lead to.

@Smallsteps88

What I am concerned about is the entrenchment of identification with/by skin colour, and the idea that black people should have "black boards" and "black businesses", wondering if it will inevitably lead to "black schools", "black hospitals" or "black police", none of which I think will be particularly beneficial to society.

Yes, I’m sure that’s what a black MNer board will lead to.

Jesus, I try to stay away from insults, but are you hard of reading ? In literally the paragraph underneath that one I make that exact point. We don't have to agree, but it's at least the decent thing to quote and discuss in good faith, rather than rely on poor jokes and deflections.

Isn’t the distinction, to use your SA analogy, that in that case the segregation was being imposed by the state to keep black people subjugated, and here we are talking about black people wanting their own spaces for their own empowerment (apologies for wanky word, couldn’t think of another)?

HelloToMyKitty

If you want a space specifically to discuss these issues, that’s fine and really up to MNHQ to provide it.

But this:

We ask nicely. White people still kill us
We protest peacefully. White people still kill us

is incredibly inflammatory and actually not statistically true. What’s the point of such overblown rhetoric?

The things OP says ARE true. Literally true. Black people have been and continue to be killed over and over again while protesting politely... in fact they get killed and maimed even when they are NOT protesting - when they are going about their business, utterly compliant with all laws, not even 'asking politely' for anything. In this context, being told to speak more politely (when the OP is doing nothing more than using an acronym used hundreds of times a day on this site by white people, about far more trivial issues) is incredibly offensive. It is not inflammatory to say so,just because you can't bear to face the truth.

In the US, perhaps, but not the UK. But even then I'd point you to the comparative white-on-black and black-on-black crime statistics, the unarmed deaths by police of white people vs. black people, and the shooting yesterday of an unarmed 13yo white boy and say that, whilst emotive and I can understand why black people might think so, it's just not true.

I try to stay away from insults

Apart from every one of your posts on this thread.

In literally the paragraph underneath that one I make that exact point.

Not quite but I know you think that’s what you were doing.

I see no one has to defend those boards.

No, the feminism boards never have to defend themselves against constant accusations of TERF-dom and have never been invaded by MRA.

If @simonJT is able to prove to us that he is, in fact, not white, I will donate £100 to the charity of his choice, my only caveat that it be registered and not overtly religious. Obviously this might be tricky, so if someone from MNHQ can verify with him privately, I'll be happy to take their word for it, and they can similarly verify my donation.*

Offering money to prove an ethnicity seems rather bribey to me.

Well my tagging and bolding failed miserably there!

The star section is what @lookatallthosechickens requested when I said that I though Biffy Clyro’s cover of WAP was not racist.

I totally support this.

That is an interesting question about the disability and sexuality-based boards. My initial response is that I would expect a separate disability board under "Health" (I don't know what the actual arborescence is on MN), because there are lots of different disabilities which would get lost in a general health board. The sexuality one is less obvious, though.

The point is that there are specific issues resulting from being black (I'm white, I'm going by what I've been told) that would be lost on the main boards. There are differences to "black parenting" with The Talk being one of them. I bet there are others.

I remember listening to the lyrics of Black by Dave and there were several lightbulb moments about things I will never have to experience.

"May I respectfully suggest@PatricksRumthat if you moderated your language and responded less defensively you would have more success in winning an argument overall."

How fucking Rude.

@SimonJT you might not be white, feel free to take me up on my offer to prove it if you care what I think, or if you want £100 for your favourite charity. It is a fact, however, that nearly every discussion of racism on the internet includes someone suddenly claiming not to be white or (as in your case) saying 'who says I'm white?' or 'I might not be white'. Never fails. So I'm suspicious.

Second post from @lookatallthosechickens asking me to prove my ethnicity.

@GingerAndTheBiscuits

Isn’t the distinction, to use your SA analogy, that in that case the segregation was being imposed by the state to keep black people subjugated, and here we are talking about black people wanting their own spaces for their own empowerment (apologies for wanky word, couldn’t think of another)?

It's segregation full stop. Now, obviously in SA and the southern US states it was enforced by the legal power of the state. Perhaps equal-but-segregated by choice will prove to be a positive thing. But I don't think it will, because I expect that there will be a sufficient white reaction - "so it's OK for them to have their own groups and exclude us / explicitly discriminate against whites, but if we want to do the same thing we're awfully racist, sub-human scum ?" - that will create a more fractured society, based on racial lines.

But, I'm just offering my opinions. I could be wrong, of course. The make-up and interactions within a society are incredibly complex, so who knows how they'll play out...

My initial response is that I would expect a separate disability board under "Health" (I don't know what the actual arborescence is on MN), because there are lots of different disabilities which would get lost in a general health board.. Disability is NOT an illness. It should no more be under health than LBG should.

I’m STILL none the wiser as to what this Black section would cover? Lots of people have asked if it includes all minorities.

As a parent of a white child, do you look at the ethnic composition of schools before you choose them for your child?
Do you have to work out how to explain to your child that "where are you from" is not a neutral question?
Do you look all over the place for dolls that mirror your child's skin?
Books that reflect their heritage?

My children aren’t white and I don’t really do this.