Long-term WFH - moving abroad

[roses2]

Those of you who are working from home long term and will continue to do so - I would be interested in your views on wfh for a UK company and moving abroad.

My company have advised from next year we will me home based 70% and in the office a handful of days per month. This opens up a whole world of opportunity on where to live. Some of our team now live a 5 hour commute away from the office (although still in the uk).

Has anyone broached the subject of moving abroad whilst remainimg a uk employee? Assuming you can meet the uk residency rules of x many days in the UK and a uk address - does your company allow this? If yes or no would you mind feedback on their reasons?

There is a double tax treaty in place. If I spend 60% of my time in the UK then legal residency and tax status won't be an issue - it will purely come down to HR policy. There isn't one in place at the moment but with their new wfh policy I expect they will need one. I'll have a chat with my boss in a few months when I'm ready to see what they say.

There's certainly no harm in asking.

I’m afraid you’re mistaken when you say that ‘tax status won’t be an issue’. However much you might not want it to be an issue, it very much will be.

Sorry but every time I see WFH, my brain reads WTF.

We are finalising our policy on wfh long term and increased flex, but one key rule will be you have to be resident in the UK. Lots and lots of reasons: tax, employee liability etc. Also implications for the individuals e.g. medical insurance provided by employer won't be valid. The only companies who can possibly consider it I think would be true multi-national ones where they could flex which branch your contract is with, but even then its way too much admin to be worth while for most companies to agree to.

We've been thinking of doing this!

My dh has worked from home for years. I keep saying we need to move aboard!

If I remain a UK resident then why is tax an issue? If I can comply with the requirements then it will only come down to data access or general corporate policy that others have mentioned.

here is the definition of a UK resident which I would comply with:

www.litrg.org.uk/tax-guides/migrants/residence-and-domicile/when-someone-resident-uk

I am an international personal tax advisor.

You will likely end up resident in both jurisdictions as previously mentioned. Cyprus will treat you as resident if you spend more than 183 days there in the calendar year. Assuming you also remain UK resident then the double tax treaty will tie break you to one location or the other (look at article 4 of UK-Cyprus treaty to see what I mean). Given your centre of vital interests will be Cyprus because your husband and home are there, you'll then end up liable to worldwide tax in one location, and taxable on income sourced to the other location (I.e. workdays in the UK). That will then be a complex situation to unravel via foreign tax credits and withholding.

You are significantly underestimating how complex this will be and you need to get proper tax advice ASAP. Your company is unlikely to support this under your current contractual set up, it's a logistical nightmare for them as an employer.

Also, in the event you do split your time 60:40 UK:Cyprus you will potentially still be taxable in Cyprus on income relating to Cyprus workdays.

I assume your husband has also had his tax position looked at because he is very likely to be dual resident in the UK and Cyprus...based on facts as you've described them I'd expect him to be UK resident and potentially subject to worldwide tax in the UK.

You need specialist tax advice here.

Fist bump to quick name change there. I got told last week I was over complicating something I've spent 20 years specialising in.

OP honestly for your employer this could be a right ballache or they could be set up to manage. Cyprus isn't a location I know too much about without looking it up but it is entirely possible your employer would need to set up a payroll there to withhold taxes if you are liable even if you are still actually paid from the uk under a uk contract. That's got all kinds of risk/cost associated with it for them. Or you may be fine and nothing is required. The point is neither you nor your employer should assume.

Ask but don't be surprised is they say no.

Thanks for the latest responses - these are so helpful. Pre covid I was planning to resign so I'll assume the same due to complex tax and hr laws. If however in what seems the unlikely scenario my company says yes it will be an added bonus.

Civil service here. Not abroad but 70% of my team who currently have a 'home office' in south London all live nearby.. but hate the area they live.. have already put offers in for homes in Norfolk, Devon, Midlands, Cornwall and Wales.. why not ? For the cost of a 1 bed in Streatham one colleague has a 3 bed small holding in North Wales... why would you not ?

Saves the planet from all those commuter fumes and productivity up 32% ! Not to mention work life balance in favour of 'life' !

If your contract changes to WFH you would then be able to expense your travel to the office when required. Are they going to be happy to shell out for flights and hotels? If you were my employee I'm not sure I would.

My cousin in moving as he now works from home and his company are refusing to change contract as they don't want to commit to paying these expenses.

What initially looks like opportunity is not as easy as it first looks as lots of other PPs say. Good luck!

Oh and those with colleagues buggering off to Devon - the mortgage company they're going with will likely ask to see 'proof' the person can wfh. So is the civil service changing everyone's contracts?

I've been advising employers on this and it's a real nightmare from a tax/residency/place of establishment perspective.

Most will be advised against it by their legal/tax advisers so it's unlikely your employer will agree. But of course there's no harm in asking them! If I were you I'd just try not be annoyed if they say no - it's not unreasonable of them to refuse

@roses2 - if of help, I started a not 100% Dissimilar thread here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4003266-Anyone-here-a-digital-nomad-or-thinking-of-being-one?msgid=99604145#99604145

Key difference being that I was thinking really only of breaking up the monotony of WFH with occasional stint overseas - particularly if we have a grim lockdown winter

I think the civil service people scarpering out of London are being a touch hasty. When the government realises they have to get people back into London, it’s fairly obvious who‘ll be roped back in first.

@50Aridane thanks - your thread is really helpful! The key is where will my residency be and how many days in the UK will I spend. I feel like most people on this thread don't get it will remain the UK with a permanent UK address and spend the majority of each year in the UK. So I don't see what the tax or employment issues are - it will purely come down to HR policy and how risk adverse they are.

OP if you are determined not to listen to professional tax advisers warning you exactly what the potential issues are here, then there's nothing more we can do to help. Good luck.

I would move abroad, keep your job for a bit even if there are tax implications, then try to find work locally once you are settled. Frankly the way the UK is going 'escaping' to another country is a good idea.

This has come up at my place of work, where all staff now have to work from home. We have been told we definitely cannot move abroad, not even staff who have EU residency post-Brexit. We have new contracts that specifically name our individual home address as our place of work. We can move within the UK/NI. We cannot move to Ireland. We cannot move even temporarily abroad to work, even those who can live in that country and are fluent in the language.

Op we get it. You will be tax resident here that's lovely. BUT that doesn't mean you won't trigger tax where you move to. That will depend on the rules there.

You CAN be taxed in 2 countries. You don't have to be tax resident in a country to be taxable there. Where there is double tax you can usually sort it out by taking tax credits but that is messy especially if you move to a country which has a different tax year.

Social security has different rules from tax

Honestly we do totally get your situation. We see it all the time. Daily. It's just sadly not as easy as you seem to think. It can be don't get me wrong. But often it isn't.

I meant to add, we may go abroad, if we can, for those who have EU passports, and join one of the Europe offices where they do the same work - but still WFH. But that would be on a local contract specific to that country, with usually less pay, different holiday entitlement, working conditions etc, all laws applicable to that country. You would be unlikely to get a UK job back again if you decided to return, definitely not on the same terms and pay you had originally.

A few tried it at our place and struggled to get the VPN to work.

Keen to hear about this, I know someone who has moved and is working remotely and doesn’t seem to think there is any issue. She has moved to turkey. Working for a UK company...I think it’s way more complex than people realise.