Long-term WFH - moving abroad

[roses2]

Those of you who are working from home long term and will continue to do so - I would be interested in your views on wfh for a UK company and moving abroad.

My company have advised from next year we will me home based 70% and in the office a handful of days per month. This opens up a whole world of opportunity on where to live. Some of our team now live a 5 hour commute away from the office (although still in the uk).

Has anyone broached the subject of moving abroad whilst remainimg a uk employee? Assuming you can meet the uk residency rules of x many days in the UK and a uk address - does your company allow this? If yes or no would you mind feedback on their reasons?

[timeisnotaline]

My husband works for a global tax advisory firm by the way so I have plenty of legitimate tax advisors to hand.
You would think so, but i was big 4 professional services when I moved around. We have a global tax advisory business, the quality of the tax team supporting staff relocations and the service they provided was rather different from what we would provide to clients! If you mean your husbands actual colleagues/friends will advise you that’s different

[aquicknamechange2019]

if you're getting your tax advice from your husband's company, I'm not sure they're as good as you think they are seeing as you don't seem to be aware of the issues here...

[roses2]

@22timeisnotaline thank you for very sensible advice rather than statements with no explanation. As mentioned earlier pre covid I was planning on resigning and it looks like I'll still be going down this route however will ask my company anyhow.

My husband works for a global tax advisory firm by the way so I have plenty of legitimate tax advisors to hand.

[timeisnotaline]

I feel like most people on this thread don't get it will remain the UK with a permanent UK address and spend the majority of each year in the UK. So I don't see what the tax or employment issues are - it will purely come down to HR policy and how risk adverse they are.
I thought earlier in the thread you got it but seemingly not. You can remain uk resident by being there over 183 days a year, but it seems quite possible you can also be tax resident in Cyprus, who don’t necessarily give a damn if you’re tax resident elsewhere, that’s not their problem. A quick google says they can designate tax residence for spending over 60 days a year there, you can easily spend 60 days a year there and 180 days in the uk and have a few days to spare for wherever you like. That info might not be current (no idea) but it shows the potential issues and why you need an advisor. To claim some not a local tax benefits in the uk a few years ago I had to do a work diary so there may be requirements to establish the set up you want. Your company is also a taxable entity and the number of days a year you work in another country can affect them, whether it works for you or not. They don’t want to be deemed as taxable by Cyprus suddenly, that would make you unpopular with management.
Also you will want to run scenarios on what happens if borders close or travel options disappear or there are quarantine requirements with coronavirus. You don’t want a lovely plan in place but you suddenly can’t spent the days you planned in the uk and it’s all gone to pot.

[ilovebrie8]

Am not sure if the employer is aware I was shocked as they seem to say it’s no problem. I think it’s a mine field and not as straight forward as they are telling people ! They are doing it anyway...

[aquicknamechange2019]

@ilovebrie8 I have spent weeks unravelling the absolute carnage caused by someone deciding to work remotely from Turkey without their UK based employer's knowledge so yes, it is definitely not straightforward!

[IrmaFayLear]

Barbados have introduced a special one-year visa for those who are wfh in other countries. I think you have to be earning at least £40k to qualify.

Concur with others on thread. You are likely to face double tax. And why not? Your firm is liable for uk tax, and you will be using the facilities of another country, eg police, roads, maybe education etc etc. Did you expect to just sit there and get it free?

Furthermore, unless you have a new contract specifying your home working status, you could be asked to go into the office at any moment or even on a regular basis.

[user1471528245]

Something else to add to the problem is that it depends on your Job, Many jobs especially government can’t have their data going offshore, won’t allow access From outside the U.K., And you may not get any IT support for company devices

[ilovebrie8]

Keen to hear about this, I know someone who has moved and is working remotely and doesn’t seem to think there is any issue. She has moved to turkey. Working for a UK company...I think it’s way more complex than people realise.

[ShandlersWig]

A few tried it at our place and struggled to get the VPN to work.

[daisypond]

I meant to add, we may go abroad, if we can, for those who have EU passports, and join one of the Europe offices where they do the same work - but still WFH. But that would be on a local contract specific to that country, with usually less pay, different holiday entitlement, working conditions etc, all laws applicable to that country. You would be unlikely to get a UK job back again if you decided to return, definitely not on the same terms and pay you had originally.

[funtimefrank]

Op we get it. You will be tax resident here that's lovely. BUT that doesn't mean you won't trigger tax where you move to. That will depend on the rules there.

You CAN be taxed in 2 countries. You don't have to be tax resident in a country to be taxable there. Where there is double tax you can usually sort it out by taking tax credits but that is messy especially if you move to a country which has a different tax year.

Social security has different rules from tax

Honestly we do totally get your situation. We see it all the time. Daily. It's just sadly not as easy as you seem to think. It can be don't get me wrong. But often it isn't.

[daisypond]

This has come up at my place of work, where all staff now have to work from home. We have been told we definitely cannot move abroad, not even staff who have EU residency post-Brexit. We have new contracts that specifically name our individual home address as our place of work. We can move within the UK/NI. We cannot move to Ireland. We cannot move even temporarily abroad to work, even those who can live in that country and are fluent in the language.

[Requinblanc]

I would move abroad, keep your job for a bit even if there are tax implications, then try to find work locally once you are settled. Frankly the way the UK is going 'escaping' to another country is a good idea.

[aquicknamechange2019]

OP if you are determined not to listen to professional tax advisers warning you exactly what the potential issues are here, then there's nothing more we can do to help. Good luck.

[roses2]

@50Aridane thanks - your thread is really helpful! The key is where will my residency be and how many days in the UK will I spend. I feel like most people on this thread don't get it will remain the UK with a permanent UK address and spend the majority of each year in the UK. So I don't see what the tax or employment issues are - it will purely come down to HR policy and how risk adverse they are.

[Bouncycastle12]

I think the civil service people scarpering out of London are being a touch hasty. When the government realises they have to get people back into London, it’s fairly obvious who‘ll be roped back in first.

[Aridane]

@roses2 - if of help, I started a not 100% Dissimilar thread here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4003266-Anyone-here-a-digital-nomad-or-thinking-of-being-one?msgid=99604145#99604145

Key difference being that I was thinking really only of breaking up the monotony of WFH with occasional stint overseas - particularly if we have a grim lockdown winter

[Ava2323]

I've been advising employers on this and it's a real nightmare from a tax/residency/place of establishment perspective.

Most will be advised against it by their legal/tax advisers so it's unlikely your employer will agree. But of course there's no harm in asking them! If I were you I'd just try not be annoyed if they say no - it's not unreasonable of them to refuse

[IvyEf]

Oh and those with colleagues buggering off to Devon - the mortgage company they're going with will likely ask to see 'proof' the person can wfh. So is the civil service changing everyone's contracts?

[IvyEf]

If your contract changes to WFH you would then be able to expense your travel to the office when required. Are they going to be happy to shell out for flights and hotels? If you were my employee I'm not sure I would.

My cousin in moving as he now works from home and his company are refusing to change contract as they don't want to commit to paying these expenses.

What initially looks like opportunity is not as easy as it first looks as lots of other PPs say. Good luck!

[disorganisedsecretsquirrel]

Civil service here. Not abroad but 70% of my team who currently have a 'home office' in south London all live nearby.. but hate the area they live.. have already put offers in for homes in Norfolk, Devon, Midlands, Cornwall and Wales.. why not ? For the cost of a 1 bed in Streatham one colleague has a 3 bed small holding in North Wales... why would you not ?

Saves the planet from all those commuter fumes and productivity up 32% ! Not to mention work life balance in favour of 'life' !

[roses2]

Thanks for the latest responses - these are so helpful. Pre covid I was planning to resign so I'll assume the same due to complex tax and hr laws. If however in what seems the unlikely scenario my company says yes it will be an added bonus.

[funtimefrank]

Fist bump to quick name change there. I got told last week I was over complicating something I've spent 20 years specialising in.

OP honestly for your employer this could be a right ballache or they could be set up to manage. Cyprus isn't a location I know too much about without looking it up but it is entirely possible your employer would need to set up a payroll there to withhold taxes if you are liable even if you are still actually paid from the uk under a uk contract. That's got all kinds of risk/cost associated with it for them. Or you may be fine and nothing is required. The point is neither you nor your employer should assume.

Ask but don't be surprised is they say no.

[Aquicknamechange2019]

Also, in the event you do split your time 60:40 UK:Cyprus you will potentially still be taxable in Cyprus on income relating to Cyprus workdays.

I assume your husband has also had his tax position looked at because he is very likely to be dual resident in the UK and Cyprus...based on facts as you've described them I'd expect him to be UK resident and potentially subject to worldwide tax in the UK.

You need specialist tax advice here.