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Shaun Bailey wants London firms to test staff for drugs

104 replies

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 11:17

I was particularly impressed that he insisted we start at Westminster and the Houses of Parliament first. Clearly this man wants to win ...

www.itv.com/news/london/2020-08-23/shaun-bailey-wants-london-firms-to-test-staff-for-drugs

Firms should conduct random drug tests on their employees, the Conservative London mayoral candidate has said.

Shaun Bailey called for every business in the capital with more than 250 employees to sign up to a drug-testing charter - routinely checking workers for illegal substance use - with the results being made public.

Mr Bailey said this would help to identify middle class cocaine users, who are fuelling the "explosion" of crime among poorer communities by purchasing drugs from criminals.

In an open letter addressed to London's business leaders, he wrote: "This is a huge problem. Drug use is not only a crime in itself; drug use is a direct cause of crime, from county lines gangs to stabbings on our streets.

"When people buy drugs, they are funding the criminals who traffic vulnerable kids and unleash mayhem on our streets.

"So as mayor, I'll call for every business in London with over 250 employees to sign up to a drug testing charter."

Mr Bailey, 49, who grew up in a council house in Ladbroke Grove, west London, was a youth worker with gang members for 20 years.

"The purpose of this charter is not to get employees fired or shamed. Individual results will be anonymous," he said.

"The purpose is to change our culture. City Hall will publish an annual league table showing which companies have the highest and lowest rates of drug use.

"Because... the way to start tackling a problem is to shine a light on it."

OP posts:
Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 16:03

But that legislation is practically useless, legal high deaths are still rising as far as I know, but of course they are entirely the wrong kind of deaths to garner any kind of public sympathy.

MrMeeseekscando · 24/08/2020 16:09

I failed a drug test at work due to taking Night nurse 2 weeks previously. (Non negative for opiates they said Hmm )
I was considered for suspension.
Others were sacked on the spot.
It isn't a great way to deal with things.

MrMeeseekscando · 24/08/2020 16:13

Oh, and our so called random tests were only used to get rid of people they couldn't be bothered to manage out properly.
Everyone else were collateral damage

Pelleas · 24/08/2020 16:15

@TSSDNCOP

Just a quick hands up. How many of you have actually been to one of these dinner parties where folk are taking coke?

I'm 52, worked in the City for 20 years, DH still does and over the years have been to god knows how many dinner parties/black tie/opening nights/corporate events etc

In all that time I have never known anyone after about 1989 (where a friend did it in a City bar loo) been in any situation where I've seen/known someone take coke.

Am I going to the wrong parties? Is it possible that whilst it's fun to demonise City firm employees the potential mayor is barking up the wrong tree?

As a non drug taker I would oppose random testing as proposed. I think it's likely just another stick to try to control businesses that have got quite a lot to contend with already at the moment. I don't believe for a second there would be no repercussions to the individual that was caught.

I'm in my mid-forties and I have never seen anyone taking coke. I lead a quiet life, though.
RubyFakeLips · 24/08/2020 16:18

OP what is your solution or at least what are the main issues you want to address?

Is it gangs or gang crime? Addiction? Drug related deaths?

I don't believe that removal of the drugs trade will do anything to reduce gang activity. The commodity just adapts and changes, this is organised crime and a huge industry in itself which isn't going to just fold.

Another point I would make re drug testing is that in the past 10 years over half of the adults I know have switched to being 'freelance'. It wouldn't be feasible to implement drug testing in that professional relationship.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 16:22

@RubyFakeLips

OP what is your solution or at least what are the main issues you want to address?

Is it gangs or gang crime? Addiction? Drug related deaths?

I don't believe that removal of the drugs trade will do anything to reduce gang activity. The commodity just adapts and changes, this is organised crime and a huge industry in itself which isn't going to just fold.

Another point I would make re drug testing is that in the past 10 years over half of the adults I know have switched to being 'freelance'. It wouldn't be feasible to implement drug testing in that professional relationship.

OP what is your solution or at least what are the main issues you want to address?

What's yours ?

Not every post has to have a point or agenda beyond discussion. As this thread has developed it's clear some people are very aware of the total and utter shitshow that the "War on Drugs" has been these past 49 years in the UK. Any lives it may have saved are vastly outweighed by the violence and adulteration is has caused.

One thing I can tell you without fear of contradiction. If I was being paid what our politicians are trousering, I'd damn well be able to come up with a better solution than "The War on Drugs".

OP posts:
InDeoEstMeaFiducia · 24/08/2020 16:24

@LaurieFairyCake

Stupid idea

Just legalise it and buy it over the counter

Goodbye most of crime

I agree completely.
ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 16:24

@MrMeeseekscando

I failed a drug test at work due to taking Night nurse 2 weeks previously. (Non negative for opiates they said Hmm ) I was considered for suspension. Others were sacked on the spot. It isn't a great way to deal with things.
Surely you wouldn't t mind paying such a small price ? I mean, If It Saves Just One Child it would have been worth it, surely ?
OP posts:
NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 16:25

I'm in the city and its awash with Coke.

Locally as well.

Depends who you know and where you go tbh.

Previous job, not so much.

NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 16:26

I don't think the companies in industries that are more druggie will relish having to deal with the results tbh.

It says nothing about what the plan is past testing people.

NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 16:26

Media/ advertising/ fashion etc would presumably presumably not be all that keen...

dollypopy · 24/08/2020 16:30

One thing I can tell you without fear of contradiction. If I was being paid what our politicians are trousering, I'd damn well be able to come up with a better solution than "The War on Drugs

What's your solution?

MrMeeseekscando · 24/08/2020 16:30

I need my job.
What if I had been sacked?
I don't accept that I should potentially suck up a life changing event because some people are wankers.

Southwestten · 24/08/2020 16:31

@LaurieFairyCake

It can be done in pharmacies - they can give advice like they do with other drugs

Small amounts can be dispensed etc

Laurie - Would anyone be able to buy any drug at the chemist? I’m not arguing with your suggestion - I’m interested as evidently the present ‘war on drugs’ isn’t working. My concern would be opiates. In US pharmaceutical companies (or maybe it was just one) encouraged doctors to readily prescribe opiates on the strength of one Professor who claimed only 1% of patients would become addicted. Evidently the professor was wrong as loads of people became addicted and it became a massive social problem. However with opiates such as codeine easily available online in UK maybe it would be better just to make it legal. I have to say I do not have any answers.
RubyFakeLips · 24/08/2020 16:39

But what I mean, is a better solution to what?

Are we trying to stop people taking drugs, is it wrong to take drugs? Are drugs only wrong when they're illegal or recreational?

Is it just stopping anyone form being killed by a drug or is it reducing addiction? What are the issue we're trying to solve?

Theres no way to find effective solutions without identifying the specific problems.

I don't and never have supported the supposed war on drugs which was a US initiative anyway, but as you've mentioned many drugs are currently legal and widely available (tobacco, alcohol, caffeine etc) but are trying to find solutions for those? What is the problem that needs to be solved?

earsup · 24/08/2020 16:40

@NiceGerbil

Media/ advertising/ fashion etc would presumably presumably not be all that keen...
That would be interesting....!!...I know several media yuppy vegan types who think its fantastic to get a bag of weed delivered in 10 mins on a bike [ eco friendly delivery..]...and enjoy a bag of coke over the weekends....
ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 16:42

@MrMeeseekscando

I need my job. What if I had been sacked? I don't accept that I should potentially suck up a life changing event because some people are wankers.
Well given that you've already highlighted how shit any "test" is (and it's impossible for any test to be 100% accurate even if it wasn't shit) then many many people will have lost their jobs thanks to bright ideas like the one in the OP. So why should you be any different ?

That isn't my personal view, by the way. But it is the official government stance - and has been since ... well 1971.

Maybe the War on Drugs is looking at the wrong enemy ?

OP posts:
ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 16:43

@dollypopy

One thing I can tell you without fear of contradiction. If I was being paid what our politicians are trousering, I'd damn well be able to come up with a better solution than "The War on Drugs

What's your solution?

Show me the money.
OP posts:
SonEtLumiere · 24/08/2020 16:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 17:09

what your experiences suggest to you would be a practical/sensible way to reduce drug use and/or harm.

Start by defining harm. Don't forget to add in people who have lost their job because of a faulty test (as MrMeeseekscando nearly did) and their families. They are just as much a victim of "the drugs" as anyone else.

OP posts:
Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 17:14

@SonEtLumiere - it would really depend which drugs and which harms you specifically want to target. And honestly I could write a manifesto, but to start with.

Personally, (and this is by no means an endorsed perspective) I'd start with far stronger diversionary activity and funded youth services for young adults, more geared towards good mental health, acknowledging adverse childhood experiences with trauma informed care, this would need to be for both young (under 25) men and women (typically drug treatment and youth offending teams are intertwined and stops at 21 with transition to adult treatment).

The Sweden model of after-school activities provision for all teenagers would be my gold standard.

I'd bring back sure start centres, but extend with teen parenting, freedom programs on top of the typical provision.

I'd invest in online group therapy provision (peer led), particularly for cocaine use.

I'd look to introduce drug consumption rooms, closely aligned with treatment services. Clean needles, onsite vaccination and testing.

Prisons would need to have a specific strategy, as well as sex working, and modern day slavery.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 17:51

That's just a generic "drugs" response, but I'll give some thought to cocaine specifically and come back.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 17:54

Oh, and remember that alcohol, tobacco and caffeine are all "drugs". So if you want them to continue being legal, you need to explain why it's OK for people to drink and smoke themselves to death with your kids getting the tax benefits from them.

OP posts:
dollypopy · 24/08/2020 18:22

@ProfessorSlocombe so you won't divulge until you get an MPs salary? Ok...

dollypopy · 24/08/2020 18:23

What's the point of this thread?