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Shaun Bailey wants London firms to test staff for drugs

104 replies

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 11:17

I was particularly impressed that he insisted we start at Westminster and the Houses of Parliament first. Clearly this man wants to win ...

www.itv.com/news/london/2020-08-23/shaun-bailey-wants-london-firms-to-test-staff-for-drugs

Firms should conduct random drug tests on their employees, the Conservative London mayoral candidate has said.

Shaun Bailey called for every business in the capital with more than 250 employees to sign up to a drug-testing charter - routinely checking workers for illegal substance use - with the results being made public.

Mr Bailey said this would help to identify middle class cocaine users, who are fuelling the "explosion" of crime among poorer communities by purchasing drugs from criminals.

In an open letter addressed to London's business leaders, he wrote: "This is a huge problem. Drug use is not only a crime in itself; drug use is a direct cause of crime, from county lines gangs to stabbings on our streets.

"When people buy drugs, they are funding the criminals who traffic vulnerable kids and unleash mayhem on our streets.

"So as mayor, I'll call for every business in London with over 250 employees to sign up to a drug testing charter."

Mr Bailey, 49, who grew up in a council house in Ladbroke Grove, west London, was a youth worker with gang members for 20 years.

"The purpose of this charter is not to get employees fired or shamed. Individual results will be anonymous," he said.

"The purpose is to change our culture. City Hall will publish an annual league table showing which companies have the highest and lowest rates of drug use.

"Because... the way to start tackling a problem is to shine a light on it."

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 24/08/2020 13:49

Stupid idea

Just legalise it and buy it over the counter

Goodbye most of crime

dollypopy · 24/08/2020 13:54

I think it's a great idea, as a born & raised Londoner who stayed away from drugs I've always found it odd that the same people who lament the rise in gang crime think nothing of taking some drugs.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 13:57

@dollypopy

I think it's a great idea, as a born & raised Londoner who stayed away from drugs I've always found it odd that the same people who lament the rise in gang crime think nothing of taking some drugs.
A lot of posters on this thread are younger than the War on Drugs. You'd think they might had twigged by now it's an absolute crock ...
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dollypopy · 24/08/2020 13:57

It's like all the conversations around BLM & what people were doing to educate themselves etc but very little convo about mc drug use.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 14:00

@LaurieFairyCake - I couldn't in good conscience support or vote for over the counter, it passes the entire burden over to the customer.

Watching how this has unfolded in the US has been really valuable, as the rise in consumables (cannabis gummies and chocolates) wasn't really something that was considered.

Just considering the potential number of accidental or deliberate poisonings should give a small pause for thought.

dollypopy · 24/08/2020 14:02

I would like to see more fairness in dealing with drugs, eg less of the white lawyer gets a slap on the wrist but the 16 yr old black kid gets charged.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 14:05

@LaurieFairyCake - I couldn't in good conscience support or vote for over the counter, it passes the entire burden over to the customer.

Either people are responsible for their own actions.

Or they are not.

Your choice.

If you want to nanny people about what they choose to put in their body, then you need to be prepared to nanny them about everything.

31 messages in, and not a whisper about the millions in the UK alone that have died from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol (which paid for your local schools, by the way) since 1971. How does it feel to have that blood on your childrens hands ?

OP posts:
LaurieFairyCake · 24/08/2020 14:09

Per population in the US there's been a completely negligible amount of issues with cannabis gummies Confused

dollypopy · 24/08/2020 14:10

31 messages in, and not a whisper about the millions in the UK alone that have died from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol

I mistakenly thought the OP was about a mayoral candidates policy idea. Soz!

LaurieFairyCake · 24/08/2020 14:11

It can be done in pharmacies - they can give advice like they do with other drugs

Small amounts can be dispensed etc

PinkyBrain · 24/08/2020 14:14

Love this idea. Some people are so tiresomely vocal re eating meat and high street shopping etc but then shove this rubbish up their noses every weekend and never seem to consider the ethical problems there. Hopefully this will get them thinking and talking.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 14:22

Bit of a tone shift there @professorslocombe!

... And you missed out sugar.

What is the specific issue you think needs addressing here? All illicit substance use, taxation on substance use, trafficking?

On balance I judge an intervention on whether it would seek to minimise harm to the vulnerable, that's it, anything else is fair game between consenting adults.

But we've seen that a prohibition policy does not work, but also that harm will come also with legalisation - we've been hanging around for 50 years for a magical third way that hasn't come up yet. What do you propose?

NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 14:23

Can you expand on this please op

'31 messages in, and not a whisper about the millions in the UK alone that have died from the legal drugs of tobacco and alcohol (which paid for your local schools, by the way) since 1971. How does it feel to have that blood on your childrens hands ?'

What do you want to be done about alcohol and tobacco?

NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 14:27

I would like to see drug abuse seen as a social/ MH issue rather than a criminal issue and legalise. Provide decent support services for addicts/ problem use with the cash.

TSSDNCOP · 24/08/2020 14:27

Just a quick hands up. How many of you have actually been to one of these dinner parties where folk are taking coke?

I'm 52, worked in the City for 20 years, DH still does and over the years have been to god knows how many dinner parties/black tie/opening nights/corporate events etc

In all that time I have never known anyone after about 1989 (where a friend did it in a City bar loo) been in any situation where I've seen/known someone take coke.

Am I going to the wrong parties? Is it possible that whilst it's fun to demonise City firm employees the potential mayor is barking up the wrong tree?

As a non drug taker I would oppose random testing as proposed. I think it's likely just another stick to try to control businesses that have got quite a lot to contend with already at the moment. I don't believe for a second there would be no repercussions to the individual that was caught.

NiceGerbil · 24/08/2020 14:29

Prof Nutt and the rest of the govt drugs advisory group suggested solutions but the they did not align with political stance so they sacked him, and all the others resigned in support of him. Few years back.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 14:32

@LaurieFairyCake - after seeing the way legal highs took off like a bottle rocket taking most of the prison estate with it, I am very, very cautious!

With vaping, while it is less harmful than tobacco smoke, still not a fantastic ideal to coat your lungs with chemicals - what will the impact be in 20 years? Haven't the foggiest!

Even if all the profits were ploughed into a properly funded health service, as well as mental health service, school education and child protection - it wouldn't be without harm - all drugs have an effect, and a side effect, what cost are we willing to pay for that amount of personal freedom?

Givemlala · 24/08/2020 14:32

armed forces

They have annual drugs tests, so they've already started than one a few decades ago.

I don't know if this is the right rack, but yes something should be done. Vulnerable teens are risking their life (and time in prison) to shill coke so that the middle class can have a snort to stay awake, or at parties. They are largely detached and protected from the consequences for these young people that their demand facilitates. And no, it isn't money hungry youngsters after a quick buck that do the dirty work. I agree that drug services are a shambles here, but most who take it socially don't need rehabilitation.

Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 14:35

I liked prof Nutt, I didn't agree with all he said - but at least he shone light and unequivocal facts on a highly emotive and politicised area.

BlueJava · 24/08/2020 14:40

I like the idea of more drugs testing - but I wonder what happens if you are positive for cocaine say? We are not allowed to be under the influence of drugs/alcohol at work but I don't think my contract says anything about what I do in my own time. I also wonder what they'd do with people found positive - it seems to potentially increase crime if they are fired for example, so would there be rehab?

None of this really affects me as I don't take anything beyond paracetamol but I hope it's thought through.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 14:59

@Timeforabiscuit

I liked prof Nutt, I didn't agree with all he said - but at least he shone light and unequivocal facts on a highly emotive and politicised area.
I was mildly encouraged, but then it turned out he had his own agenda about pushing "Synthohol"

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/alcohol-hangover-liver-damage-alcosynth-david-nutt-a8841141.html

Still with our current Home Secretary looking to explicitly make sure amyl nitrate is legal, who knows ? We may seem some consistency yet ...

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Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 15:27

I can't talk about anything surrounding the dogs dinner that was the New Psychoactive Substance Act @professorslocombe, the tick in my left eye will come back.

I hadn't kept up with Prof Nutts work after he left the advisory group, but the allure of creating a brand new substance.... It's all a bit poacher turned game keeper ( or would it be the other way round).

Its actually a really difficult thing to do, design a new drug with few (or social acceptable) side effects. Those that we already have do a stand up job!

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 15:39

I can't talk about anything surrounding the dogs dinner that was the New Psychoactive Substance Act @professorslocombe, the tick in my left eye will come back.

Shame, as I was looking for a view on the deliberate exclusion of incense for the religious happy-clappy people who would never use drugs ...

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Timeforabiscuit · 24/08/2020 15:54

Grin Yup!! Not doing it! More holes in that legislation than a colander! Thank goodness we don't enforce all the laws this country makes!

It did get rid of the headshops though, although trading standards were already cracking down on them.

ProfessorSlocombe · 24/08/2020 15:58

@Timeforabiscuit

Grin Yup!! Not doing it! More holes in that legislation than a colander! Thank goodness we don't enforce all the laws this country makes!

It did get rid of the headshops though, although trading standards were already cracking down on them.

Hmm

I was a tad disturbed to read that one criteria that Trading Standards and the police were invited to use as to whether to investigate such shops was "display of political material" with examples given of "posters agitating for changes in the law".

But since headshops (like the entire recreation drugs industry) were light years ahead of the arrow of progress and disappearing into the internet, it wasn't really something to waste time on.

Also, who wants to be photographed by the police using a shop ?

OP posts: