Sad new Mum- Expressing and trying to get baby to latch

[NewbieMamma]

My baby is 5 weeks and has been unable to latch since birth sadly, due to various reasons, including a traumatic hospital stay where we were separated for a night. It's been horrible but we are safe and sound now. I am currently expressing and bottle feeding him expressed breast milk using paced bottle feeding technique. I have to top up with a bit of formula for some feeds as I can't express quite enough milk (it really varies throughout the day - lots on the morning and virtually none in the night) and I do one whole bottle of formula a day as well. It is exhausting and I'm struggling to maintain the relentless routine, even though I really want him to have breast milk. DH is supportive and helps a lot, but of course he can't pump for me!

Around the pumping and the feeding, I'm also continuing to try him on the boob as much as possible. Again this gets tiring as he cries and I feel bad. (I have had a lot of intervention here from LLL and lactation consultant). The main advice now is to keep trying him on the boob, keep doing skin to skin etc.

All in all I go through days where I feel exhausted and so sad about the whole thing. If only he would just latch. I'm told it's not too late and to keep trying.

It's also tricky to know if he's feeding too much. He's putting on quite a lot of weight after an underweight start, and I sometimes worry it's too much, but the guidance on quantities for express bf plus formula is so opaque- it's usually just for one or the other.

Anyway, just looking for some shared experiences really, or some words of wisdom or support.

Worries I have are:

• how do I organise skin to skin into my daily schedule more easily? Getting him undressed usually makes him cry as he hates getting changed and then I feel like I've made him distressed. I am doing one bath together with him each day which is nice.
• what is a good pumping and feeding schedule for me? I feel like I'm always catching up and never on top of this. Is it possible to maintain this to keep my sanity?
• am I feeding him too much milk overall? How do I know?
• what else can I do?

Also hope it's ok to post on Chat as the feeding forum is quiet.

Hi I exclusively pumped for 8 months. At the start you have to pump a lot I pumped 8 times a day until 16 weeks. By 8 months I was down to 4 pumps a day but had enough in the freezer to last until he was 1. I didn't worry too much about over feeding. He was a big boy and still is.
It's important to have a good support system in place and a good double pump along with a pumping bra to keep your hands free.
The kellys mom website has a ton of useful information around expressed breast milk.
And can I say well done, you're doing a great job and the benefits of your little one getting your breast milk are amazing and incomparable.
Please feel free to ask any questions. It's not easy but it's worth it.

Is there a peer support group locally? They can be very helpful. Perhaps NCT?

Firstly I think you need to be less harsh on yourself. Its a tough few months at the very least. Try to look after yourself too

And don't forget your middle of the night pump. It's the most important. A balls to have to wake when your baby is asleep but it's the best time to pump.

Is your partner at home during the day to bring you food and drinks and keep an eye on things? If so, jump into bed, following safe sleeping guidelines, get comfortable with the tv set up in there or music playing, and just rest and feed all day. There is really almost no risk of overfeeding a breastfed baby so don’t worry about that.

The fussing is probably most likely because milk is not coming fast enough so just forget about a schedule and feed as much as is comfortable for you with breaks as you need them.

At this age you should expect to feed 6 times in 24 hours as a minimum with no more than 6 hours as the longest break between feeds. The reality, with the 6 week growth spurt coming up, will be more like 12 times with a cluster in the evening.

See if you can find Jack Newman’s videos on good latches. I found it’s often easier to improve a poor latch by adjusting during the feed - teasing the baby’s lips out into the special K shape - than to stop and start again.

Feel fine about formula top ups - perfection is the enemy of good, and well fed is more important than exclusively breast fed.

Personally I would ditch the pumping - it’s exhausting for you and not as good as the baby is at getting a good supply going - but that’s a choice for you.

I was in your situation and my main advice to you would be to go easy on yourself.

In the situation you are in, you will very easily drive yourself to exhaustion and despair. I did and it wasn't good for me or for my baby.

I understand that you really want your baby to be breastfed and to have breastmilk. But some babies can't or won't do that. Your baby has had lots of breastmilk already and will have had the benefits this brings. Formula milk will nourish him very, very well. I also wouldn't worry at all about him putting on weight if he's gaining nicely - you can check growth charts online or ask your health visitor if you're concerned, but at this age you're not going to be causing him a problem by feeding on demand with correctly made-up formula milk and/or breast milk.

My baby never breastfed and I eventually stopped trying (very unhappily) because it distressed him and made it impossible for me to get rest and sleep. He is now a strapping teenager and my only regret is that I put us both through it for so long.

I know this may not be what you want to hear, but please be gentle with yourself. Breastfeeding is not the Holy Grail of parenting.

Apologies if my ideas aren't helpful or if you've already tried them, my DD refused to latch until I used nipple shields. Once I used these she could feed from me.

Again I did lots of pumping but to do it full time is hard work.

Make sure you are being kind to yourself, he sounds like he is doing really well.

Gremlin's advice is very good - as far as you can, just go to bed together and stay there for the next while. If you can figure out the positions to feed lying down (I found side to side easiest) it will change your life. You can do as much skin to skin as you like then because you'll both be warm and comfy.

It's surprisingly hard to do this because we feel so guilty and like we ought to be Doing Things - but you really are doing something for both your benefit by doing this.

Very best of luck to you both, and as Finkelbraun says, be kind to yourself.

I would try using nipple shields. My baby wouldn't latch on but would latch on fine using nipple shields. He was premature so once he was strong enough, after about a month, he managed to latch on by himself without the shields.

The UK Breastfeeding Support Facebook group is really useful for more tips.

The skin to skin thing was something I always worried I wasn't doing enough of, like I never sat around topless with my baby on my chest etc (although I was/am breastfeeding) but then I realised skin to skin is really not as complicated as that. Stroking your baby's cheek with your hand is skin to skin contact, holding their hand is skin to skin contact. Basically handling your baby regularly in a loving way is providing skin to skin contact.
Sorry to hear about your latching problems. I know breastfeeding is emotionally so important to some mums, including myself.
You are doing your best for your baby and that is what counts.

@Hohohole my consultant advised me to drop that pump - I know the nights are meant to be best but she said it was stressing me out too much on balance and especially as I yield zero at night. I do one at 12 and one v early morning.

@Gremlinsateit thank you for your message. I don't understand what you mean about dropping the pumping though? My baby would then literally get no breast milk, as he currently is unable to breast feed..?

Thank you for the advice about nipple shields. I have tried 4 different brands but so far no luck. He wobbles his head too much and gets frustrated with them and they come off.

You have probably already tried this but when I was struggling to get my baby to latch I was shown this by the infant feeding team and it made a huge difference for me and I don't think I would be breastfeeding now if I hadn't been shown so thought its worth mentioning

If you put your thumb and your first finger either side of the back of baby's neck it kinda creates a space for baby's neck to rest on and then put your middle finger under the baby's should/under his arm)

Oops posted too soon

Then the rest of your fingers will be under his arm and then you both have more control over his neck and it might make it easier to position him onto your nipple...you've probably already been shown but seriously it was a game changer for me and I wasn't shown this with my first and I ended up in the same position that your in now with expressing etc and it was hard so hope this helps!

Urgh auto type changed shoulder to should in first post!

Can you elaborate on what you mean by 'your schedule'? To get lots of skin to skin Id just not dress baby at all for a few days and stay in bed/on the sofa topless with baby for the whole day. When baby is calm and content present the nipple and let baby lick/suck/ explore as much as possible. You can also look into supplementary feeding systems to get baby back to the breast .

Sorry, I should say, I'm asking because I too have a 5 week old and I literally have no schedule. Just feed feed feed on demand day and night!

No advice on the pumping but I just want to remind you to not allow feeding to over rule everything and take over your life, because it shouldn't. Go easy on yourself and remember this is all new to you.

Please just also know that if you switch to complete formula feeding, your baby will be just fine. Go easy on yourself.

If it's affecting you that much then stop if you want to Pumping ruled my life for those 8 months. I couldn't do anything without my pump, I think it was one of the toughest times of my life. I was driven by guilt after my my first developed eczema after I stopped feeding her myself.
Look after yourself, it can feel like you don't matter in the first few months.

Bless you. It’s so hard isn’t it? I know you said you have tried nipple shields but Mam ones saved me and they were my 5th option!! Also fenugreek supplements made my supply better and allowed me to express more. As pp have said, overnight pumping is so important - I get loads more around 2am than during the day! Good luck and look after yourself, it’s tough and well done for giving it your best shot xx

Have you considered stopping using bottles and using a feeding spoon/cup instead. Lots of mum's who combination feed find their lo had "nipple confusion". The way babies get milk from bottles is vastly different (and less effort for them) compared to how they get it from breasts. Removing the bottle might help her learn to latch onto a boob. It won't necessarily get less relentless though; she might feed more often.

In terms of increasing skin to skin have you considered a vija designs top? I used one with both of mine till ~6m and it was well worth the money. They're also great for helping lo regulate their temperature after vaccinations.

I’ve skimmed so maybe I’ve missed it, but has he been checked for tongue tie/lip tie?

On another note, DD had to have formula in hospital for reasons I now forget, and they gave it to her from a cup to help avoid nipple confusion. As PPs say that might be an idea.

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate all the tips and advice. I follow Mumsnet a lot and it often frustrates me when I read a thread and the OP is really negative about the advice offered or doesn't listen to opinions. So I hope I'm not being that person, I really don't mean to be. But it does feel as if I have honestly tried everything. Nipple shields (different brands), using a cup, he's had a tongue tie specialist check him, different breast feeding holds, skin to skin, baths, lying down, etc etc. Plus various consultants and breast feeding counsellors. And of course the opinion of my health visitor whose presence I find really unsupportive.

I know I sound negative and it's just now I'm feeling at the moment. No doubt made worse by tiredness, etc. I'm recovering from a c-section as well and things haven't been too smooth.

I'm aware I could just for his feed but it seems such a shame given I have breast milk flowing- though mostly in the mornings.

Anyway I am taking onboard the advice and I am grateful for it, so I'm sorry it it sounds otherwise. It's just so hard.