Sad new Mum- Expressing and trying to get baby to latch

[NewbieMamma]

My baby is 5 weeks and has been unable to latch since birth sadly, due to various reasons, including a traumatic hospital stay where we were separated for a night. It's been horrible but we are safe and sound now. I am currently expressing and bottle feeding him expressed breast milk using paced bottle feeding technique. I have to top up with a bit of formula for some feeds as I can't express quite enough milk (it really varies throughout the day - lots on the morning and virtually none in the night) and I do one whole bottle of formula a day as well. It is exhausting and I'm struggling to maintain the relentless routine, even though I really want him to have breast milk. DH is supportive and helps a lot, but of course he can't pump for me!

Around the pumping and the feeding, I'm also continuing to try him on the boob as much as possible. Again this gets tiring as he cries and I feel bad. (I have had a lot of intervention here from LLL and lactation consultant). The main advice now is to keep trying him on the boob, keep doing skin to skin etc.

All in all I go through days where I feel exhausted and so sad about the whole thing. If only he would just latch. I'm told it's not too late and to keep trying.

It's also tricky to know if he's feeding too much. He's putting on quite a lot of weight after an underweight start, and I sometimes worry it's too much, but the guidance on quantities for express bf plus formula is so opaque- it's usually just for one or the other.

Anyway, just looking for some shared experiences really, or some words of wisdom or support.

Worries I have are:

• how do I organise skin to skin into my daily schedule more easily? Getting him undressed usually makes him cry as he hates getting changed and then I feel like I've made him distressed. I am doing one bath together with him each day which is nice.
• what is a good pumping and feeding schedule for me? I feel like I'm always catching up and never on top of this. Is it possible to maintain this to keep my sanity?
• am I feeding him too much milk overall? How do I know?
• what else can I do?

Poor thing. I've been there. I pumped for 3 months which is when DS finally learnt to latch. It was an absolutely hellish 3 months, I was in a very bad place.

Pumped every 3 hours for 4 mins (double pump).

For about 4 weeks I didn't even try and get DS to latch because it was just so disappointing when he didn't.

Tried again around 3 months and he started to get it.

I did consider rebirthing (in a dark bathroom, getting in a warm bath with baby) but he managed to latch just a few days before I tried it.

I went through 4 different lactation consultants btw. It must be even harder with Covid

I just want to say that how and what you feed your baby is only one of the many, many decisions you will make as a parent.

If your feeding regime is a source of stress or anxiety in your life, it is absolutely fine to switch to formula, share the job with DH/DP and get some sleep.

Have you tried nipple shields?
My little girl lost 11oz in 3 days due to a bad match (she looked like she could latch, but wasn't actually feeding).

I started off hand expressing and it took so long. The feeding team came to check on us and recommended a shield. I haven't looked back. She matches perfectly and at 15 days old (so 12 days on the shield) she's put on 1lb 1oz (as of yesterday, so 11 days really). They're trying to get her off them now, but she isn't liking the boob, but I'm happy to keep using them if she is.

We're also pumping, as like you I also don't have as much milk at night. When I spoke to the nurse about this apparently all women have less milk at night and getting baby to feed will increase this over time. I get her to latch at night but she has a bottle of expressed breast milk during the night to keep her happy and not frustrated.

Also, when I was in hospital we were given an A-F guide - I can't find it but it's;

If baby feeds constantly for 10 or more minutes do not top up feed
If baby feeds constantly for 5-10 minutes top up with a half feed
If baby doesn't want to latch/feed give them a full feed, but we're sticking to this, feeding every 3 hours (but we will feed earlier if baby is wanting food, but waking her up if it's been 3 hours). I know you say baby isn't latxhing, but I felt this took the pressure off so if I could get her to latch (pre/shield) that it didn't matter if she didn't stay on because I knew what to give her so she wasn't hungry. I started off having to top up with formula and breast milk together as I was only able to express 20ml in an hour, but now we're getting 60-90ml in 20 minutes so we have plenty in the fridge/freezer to see her through.

Have you tried having baby in a sling for skin to skin? If you're able to not wear a top at home and just walk around doing any jobs you need to do.

I hope it gets better for you, it's never as easy as it's made out to be. One if the reasons I choice to BF is because it looked easy and happy etc, it isn't. It's bloody hard and I hate not knowing if baby has had enough but I know we'll get there.

Have you got a feeding team in your area? We have an infant feeding team but then also a community feeding team who will do home visits etc.

I’ve been in the same position as you. My baby was 6 weeks early and low birth weight. I pumped and fed and he had to have some formula too coz I couldn’t pump enough. It was so so so stressful and awful. I was unbelievable jealous of women who could just bf no issues. I was pumping 8 times a day initially but it became unmanageable once partner went back to work. My baby also hated being undressed so I didn’t do skin to skin. Eventually the rugby ball position worked but it took about 7 weeks. It was so upsetting. I’m sure you’ve tried it all. I got to the point when I sent the hospital grade pump back and decided that if I had to formula feed then I would. Luckily that was the week that he got it but it was just pure fluke. Suddenly rugby ball worked. So just keep going and trying all the things you’re trying. One day one will work. Or it won’t and we’re very lucky to live in a country with clean water and formula at hand. So your baby will be fine either way

Thank you for the kind words.

I think I'm sort of where you were @ThickFast where I'm beginning to think when or how will this relentlessness end. I really hope he turns a corner soon 🙏🏼🙏🏼

I know you said baby has been checked for TT but given how tough you're finding it I would get a second opinion, just to be 100% sure. A posterior tie can be hard to spot.

Both my DC had TT and my second in particular was completely unable to latch until it was divided.

You've done so well to get this far, i was pumping with a non latching baby post section and it is tough. Make sure you cut yourself some slack and look after yourself.

Hi OP, congrats on your beautiful boy.

This was me last year - baby born at 36 weeks, over 6lb but very tired and unable to feed, so I started pumping. It took until she was 6 weeks old before she was strong enough to feed (9lb+ I think).

Anyway, after 5 weeks your milk should be reasonably established. I would pump every 4 to 5 hours, and once at night. Make sure you get some sleep and stay very hydrated to keep up milk production. I would try baby on the boob every couple of days when you have half an hour's peace and feel relaxed.

I know it is stressful but I would try to relax about it a bit - i think the more you stressed you get, the less milk you will produced and the baby will pick up on it. Just put it out of your mind and focus on the fact you're doing a great job of feeding your baby. He has already had all the colostrum which is the most nutritious part, so you've done well already.

As a footnote, I would avoid breastfeeding groups and counsellors like the plague - they just add pressure and that is the last thing you need.

DD couldn't latch, went red screaming at the mere sight of my nipple, that rejection was hard I tried shields when she was only a couple of days old but they didn't work so I pumped and gave formula, then tried shields again weeks later and they worked. A pp said something just worked one day and that's my experience too.

I've gone on to EBF for over a year so far. Ditched the shields at about 5 months.

I really hope you find something that works. The triple feeding that you're doing now is the hardest parts of each of the feeding methods, cut yourself some slack

You are working so hard, OP, you have my sympathy.

You've had some excellent advice here. Nighttime pumping should be the most productive but a pump often just isn't as efficient as a baby would be. Are you looking at him and thinking lovely thoughts? I find it really helps letdown. Keep going with the skin to skin too. Watch a few vids on biological nurturing and laid back breastfeeding, then go to bed in pants / nappy for the day and try propping yourself up in the laid back position and see if it helps? Forget the house, get your partner to cook, load up on snacks and gallons of water, and see how you go.

He's had lots in 5 weeks, and there is nothing wrong with combination feeding, much as you want him to latch. I do understand but please don't make yourself ill and miserable. I'm a veteran feeder and have been lucky with my babies but it is just luck and perseverance. If it's making you so sad, remember he's still getting so much from your pumping and that formula is an acceptable addition.

Well done for all your effort so far. As PP said, maybe reduce the amount you try getting him to latch just to every couple of days, if anything just for your own sanity. I was kind of in your position for first 3 weeks of DD's life (was giving her a higher proportion of formula feeds than you though) and she would occasionally latch (like 1/5 times) but I couldn't see a pattern to it. I think the thing that eventually worked was trying immediately after pumping (when I'd lost hope) and with rugby ball hold. Been exclusively bf for almost a year now and appreciate it every day. Keep trying until you don't want to anymore! And maybe use more formula to give yourself a break and build supply again later?

I had to exclusively pump for 6 weeks for DD1, then she did finally latch on with nipple shields. She wouldn't latch at all before that and it was exhausting and stressful. Hopefully another week or so and your DC will be able to latch too. You are doing a fabulous job. Well done.

I hope you manage to get there. I think for mine it was just a strength thing. He was so sleepy and so small. I ended up feeding for 17 months which was great. My second just latched no issues at all and that was amazing. But that was just luck. Having had the two different experiences I can say that a lot of it is down to the baby. Some get it straight away and some don’t. But if you do have to stop, then remember that it’s ok. I had it in my head that formula was like poison. Which is so stupid. Formula is absolutely fine and your baby will be healthy and loved however you feed.

I also had one who could not breast feed (or bottle feed, but that’s another issue).

I kept up the pumping for two weeks but it was all consuming and I finally decided not appropriate for me family.

It broke my heart when I switched to formula only, but she and I thrived from then in.

I used to do skin to skin first thing in the morning. I'd take the night nappy off and get him clean (maybe DH could do this), go for a wee myself and then take my top off and snuggle back in bed with him for an hour or so, with a blanket over both of us.

Sorry OP, I didn’t mean to be confusing. I personally found pumping exhausting and depressing, as well as less convenient and efficient than direct breastfeeding, but it is absolutely your choice.

Have you been shown how to get some milk flowing before the baby starts feeding, and how to do a hamburger hold and brush the baby’s mouth open to encourage the latch? This video is quite good m.youtube.com/watch?v=0I-OAr7Dr48

Oh I just saw you had a caesar - I hope someone let you know that it is often harder to establish feeding after a caesar and not to beat yourself up :)

Please don’t worry about over feeding - whether breast milk or formula they don’t drink more than they need at that age (if they do, it comes straight back out!) Particularly since you’re paced feeding this just isn’t an issue.

Oh OP sending you big hugs xxx

You've received some excellent practical advice above and of course if you want to give any of it a go then go for it.

However I will say... I went what you're e going through with one of mine a few years a go. I pumped for my DC (and topped up with formula) for about 6 months. I also spent those 6 months frantically trying to get DC to latch. I tried everything, nipple shields, fenugreek, checking for tongue the, pumping in the night and seeing a lactation consultant etc etc.

In the end it all made me miserable. I winced at the sight of the pump and absolutely dreaded feeding time and in all honesty it caused me depression. If I could go back now I would tell myself to stop after the first few weeks and just relax and enjoy the wee one. Honestly in a few years you will look back and realise what DC needs is a happy, calm mum. It's OK to give yourself permission to formula feed if you need to and don't listen to anyone who tells you otherwise (especially your own self doubt!). Everything will be OK ❤️❤️.

Chrimbo is 100% correct

Also agree with Chrimbo - I tried with my first and nothing worked so I stopped and formula fed. It was lush! This time I’ve persevered and breastfed. In hindsight I’m no happier, baby seems no healthier than her older brother and I’m not sure it’s been worth the pain and stress! If it works it works, if it doesn’t then that’s also great. Fed is best

Just seconding what Chrimbo said.

If you want to keep on pumping then by all means do, but my experience of exclusively pumping was really, really hard. When my baby was sleeping I had to pump and I barely got a second to myself and was driven half mad by it and couldn’t bond with him. A friend told me it’s ok to stop. Breastmilk is good for your baby but if it’s coming at the expense of your mental health and happiness it is not worth it. For some reason I felt like I needed that permission to stop and I switch to formula and it was like a weight off my shoulders. I loved feeding my baby his bottles and I relaxed and started enjoying him.

That’s just my experience and if that’s not for you then that’s fine but breastmilk isn’t the be all and end all.

Sending you hug. This newborn stage can be so hard but whatever happens your baby will be ok and this bit will pass

Chrimbo is definitely wise

I just wanted to add sorry - it's likely if you've been supported by LLL and an LC he has, but has your baby been checked for tongue tie?

Yes, I agree with Chrimbo as well.

Thank you, your advice is really helpful Chrimbo. I know you are right.

I guess the only thing keeping me persevering is that I still have lots of breast milk and I'd like him to have it. But I see a lot of truth in your post.

Also Gremlin, yes of course it would be more convenient for me to breast feed rather than pump! That is my goal! I want to be able to put him to my breast at night sat, instead of all the gaff with pumping and bottles. I've said upthread that the problem isn't my hold- that's been checked by what now feels like countless professionals and I've been told it's grand. He doesn't latch. It's as simple as that.

I've tried it all, so it's now a case of trying to relax if that's possible and maybe an outcome will become clear.

If I pump a bit less I presume my supply will dwindle- but will it stop? Could I go to 50/50 for example or is that not possible?

I know when o stopped pumping my milk supply stopped quite quickly, I guess because my daughter was never able to latch on and properly stimulate flow.