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Original poster

Can some one explain to me what the situation with the A- levels is?

125 replies

AnaadiNitya · 14/08/2020 22:00

I’ve tried to have a look at other threads but it’s not very clear ( to me)

Are the exams results being downgraded due to what the school normally achieved? What the lock down anything to do with it?
If a pupil actually achieved a A would it actually be down graded anyway?

Sorry I know I sound dense on the matter.

OP posts:
onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 12:26

@Hercwasonaroll yes - you are right with regards to the class size being important. But to say the CAG wasn't relevant is completely untrue.

itsgettingweird · 15/08/2020 12:26

That's a really good article. Although very statistical it's very clear about what happened and how it happened and explained quite simply.

itsgettingweird · 15/08/2020 12:31

Does anyone know if this "statistically will get a U" was universal across all colleges etc or just in some?

Because it seems even more flawed if they expected 1 pupil as a minimum to fail in each setting.

Especially because with variables across all places indi and 6th form generally don't enter students who will likely fail. Which is why they take 4 a levels and drop the one they are weakest at (in most cases it's the weakest but I know it's not that simple) at the end of year 12.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

General education
onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 12:32

@Hercwasonaroll completely right regards DSs friend - who now has no university place (on hold pending appeal but frankly he needs the A for his first choice) The school appear to have done some very odd things with their rankings. In particular students known to be, let's say, "less favourite" (not saying our ds was one of those) have been put through rather oddly! We have submitted a FOI request for several things in order to get to the bottom of why they have submitted the grades they did for DS.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 12:40

What Peaches said was correct about classes over 15. In those classes the CAG was literally completely ignored. Obviously the ranking was used. The ranking was the most important part of the exercise.

ChateauMargaux · 15/08/2020 12:46

@Hercwasonaroll Thank you. I am not sure what those graphs are showing but I can see that Independent and Other have had the biggest increase in A's and above year on year. As for the first graph, again, not sure what this is showing apart from change points at 5 and 15.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 12:53

They show the weighting given to the CAGs vs algorithm for different class sizes. So a class of 8 had more weighting given to CAGs than a class of 12. I'd guess that in reality the weighting didn't have much effect on the grade distribution due to the relatively small class sizes. However this may not be true and without a lot of data crunching there's no way to know!

Peaseblossom22 · 15/08/2020 12:59

@onlyreadingneverposting8 no I’m sorry Ofqual have stated on record that they ignored the CAG for cohorts over 15 . They looked at the rank number without reference to grade/CAG. So if the grades in the class were A to C but the algorithm said the grades should be C to E then the bottom person would get an E even if working at a C . The person ranking first would get an A . Equally there are cases of people working at a U ( decided not to take an exam) but have been upgraded to a D because the model has ranked them on historical data distribution.

cmanni · 15/08/2020 13:08

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orangenasturtium · 15/08/2020 13:23

@flower11

It seems that the alithrogram they applied has caused downgrades in schools from more deprived areas. There is a school local to me where a head is campaigning on behalf of a girl from working class background who has got into medical school. She got 3 A in mocks and has been down graded to A C C . Everyone in her chemistry class has been downgraded. She has worked so hard but her individual efforts don't now count because of the use of statistics which is so unfair. And looks at past results for the school and area. She has now lost her place at medical school unless appeal works.
That poor girl. Med schools and Oxbridge don't normally accept resit grades. Hopefully they will waive that rule for anyone applying next year from this cohort who was downgraded from their CAG grades.
onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 19:01

@Peaseblossom22 do you have where ofqual states this on record please.

onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 19:08

In addition, @Peaseblossom22 when challenged - at no point has DSs school blamed the algorithm and have admitted that the grade submitted and his ranking being the cause. Yes - the algorithm has affected grades but ultimately the CAG and rank within that grade has had the biggest affect in the vast majority of cases. We shall see what the FOI request results in.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 19:47

@onlyreadingneverposting8 Have you read the ofqual report? It states clearly that CAGs were ignored over 15.

Unfortunately if the mock is above the CAG it looks like the appeal may be fruitless. WTF was that school thinking.

onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 20:05

@Hercwasonaroll could you link the report please. our appeal is going to have to be malpractice/maladministration looking at the current ofqual appeals guidance. Exceptionally difficult and most probably won't result in any change.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 20:20

www.gov.uk/government/publications/awarding-gcse-as-a-levels-in-summer-2020-interim-report
Hopefully that links to the technical report.

www.gov.uk/government/news/appeals-based-on-mock-exams

This is the appeals process.

Your kids school sounds awful or they thought he had cheated. I'm sorry for their incompetence.

onlyreadingneverposting8 · 15/08/2020 20:43

Thanks @Hercwasonaroll - checkers with DS only 11 in his group CAG not ignored entirely. Yup - the school is terrible. Thank gif we moved younger Ds away from it after elder Ds was assaulted in an unprovoked serious assault last year and we had to get the police involved to ensure the culprit as actually dealt with rather than excluded for 24hrs (the suggested punishment by the school).

itsgettingweird · 15/08/2020 20:44

[quote Peaseblossom22]**@onlyreadingneverposting8* no I’m sorry Ofqual have stated on record* that they ignored the CAG for cohorts over 15 . They looked at the rank number without reference to grade/CAG. So if the grades in the class were A to C but the algorithm said the grades should be C to E then the bottom person would get an E even if working at a C . The person ranking first would get an A . Equally there are cases of people working at a U ( decided not to take an exam) but have been upgraded to a D because the model has ranked them on historical data distribution.[/quote]
Pease does that student get to keep the D. That's got to be one lucky student Grin

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 20:47

I can't get my head round entering a CAG below a mock grade unless they suspected malpractice.

If your ds has missed uni places I'd see if he could resit at all as this is probably his best bet. (grade boundaries may be strange due to smaller entries). Depends if you can afford any sort of tutoring. He has definitely been very hard done to.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 20:48

In theory they should keep the D as ofqual have said the highest grade stands. Not sure if there is an appeals process for this!

itsgettingweird · 15/08/2020 20:49

@onlyreadingneverposting8

Thanks *@Hercwasonaroll* - checkers with DS only 11 in his group CAG not ignored entirely. Yup - the school is terrible. Thank gif we moved younger Ds away from it after elder Ds was assaulted in an unprovoked serious assault last year and we had to get the police involved to ensure the culprit as actually dealt with rather than excluded for 24hrs (the suggested punishment by the school).
Tell your ds for me I'm sorry. Mh ds wen to a similarly shit school and I was lucky to get him moved (then got ehcp). The effect that has in confidence and belief in themselves is dreadful but to them have teachers validate that.

My da had a knife pulled on him in a classroom by his bully. Da had a complete breakdown and tried to hang himself because the school wouldn't help and he said he'd rather kill himself than let someone else do it.

He was too anxious to go to school.

Amongst many gems one of the schools responses was "well we aren't authorising it because we've excluded the child for 2 days so dd has no need to be anxious"

Ds has worked so hard to overcome it and was doing so well and even got a 9 in his science mock and everything else above predicted and end of year target.

He was on for much better than expected.

Now he'll get what a computer decides he's worth Sad

xyzandabc · 15/08/2020 21:18

Just read the 'valid mock' criteria and came on to post it here but you beat me to it herc!

Covers pretty much everything that was mentioned as being an issue earlier and I would imagine the vast vast majority of schools will have something that fits the valid mock criteria. Interesting to see that the CAG will be used if lower than the mock.

I'll also be interested to see if they disallow any appeals based on valid mocks. Or will it be a case of as long as the schools sign the form to say yes it was a valid mock, then they will allow the grade to be changed without any further procrastination. Also turn around time as students uni places are still dependant on these. Our exams office will be busy this week!

Marlboroughdreams · 15/08/2020 21:22

@Hercwasonaroll

I can't get my head round entering a CAG below a mock grade unless they suspected malpractice.

If your ds has missed uni places I'd see if he could resit at all as this is probably his best bet. (grade boundaries may be strange due to smaller entries). Depends if you can afford any sort of tutoring. He has definitely been very hard done to.

We did for one or two - they got a D in their mock for example, but since then had received an unconditional offer and stopped working completely, didn't turn up to all lessons, no effort in coursework even before exams were cancelled etc, and we predicted an E. I don't think that was unreasonable. Obviously a different situation to what has been mentioned, but one example of a school doing it.
xyzandabc · 15/08/2020 21:33

Or perhaps where the mock was on a limited content, so not the whole specification. If that was the students strongest unit/paper/section then perhaps they wouldn't have done so well had they sat all of the papers including their weaker units.

Hercwasonaroll · 15/08/2020 21:35

Ahh yes Malborough that's completely fair. Didn't even consider students like that. I think ofqual also need centres to be able to appeal for a U for students who don't deserve the E/D grade they've been given.

itsgettingweird · 15/08/2020 21:38

Actually seeing how simple a process appeals is and criteria for valid mock i was quite surprised.and have been searching for the catch Wink

It screams to me that they realise they've made a huge fuck up and are saving face by now making out they will do their best for students.

Which they wouldn't have to do if they didn't made such a pigs ear of it in the first place!