London parents - Free bus travel for children suspended from October half term

[Poundpup]

I just came across this article whilst browsing the BBC site and it seems that free transport for under 18s will be suspended temporarily directly after the October half term. With exceptions for those travelling to school more than 2 miles away.

Does anyone know how much a child's fare is? As nowhere seems to indicate what the incoming children fares will be.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53694922

Bit of a piss take if you live somewhere kinda like where I grew up (on a loop shape estate with only a few roads out) where you could technically live within the 2 miles but your peer just up the road doesn't and you both use the same bus stop. Takes twice as long to walk as it does to get the bus so you loose an hour of your day for the sake of a few hundred meters.

And no way could my school have coped with loads more kids cycling in (or having more year 11+ using mopeds, petrol would be cheaper than half adult fare and could be used for other trips too... heck a 17 year old could give lifts and make some money)

Most of the country outside of London have a car, and that makes a difference.

How is that relevant when children arent allowed to drive?

My daughter’s bus fare will be £900 a school year. That’s a disgrace.

@DateLoaf

I think it’s awful that the subsidy is being removed. All the posters moaning about how they don’t get good or affordable services locally to them, so everyone else should have crap services. That’s a rubbish argument. It’s not a race to the bottom. (better to write to your MP and council and support campaigns for better or more affordable services locally..)

There are factors relevant in London (a megacity) that are just different from other areas of the country, even the other big cities- very high volumes of motor and cycle traffic and people on pavements in rush hour and kids with big distances to cover to get to school. This is often to do with the immense cost of housing in London- these factors mean that not all children will be able to walk or cycle to a nearby school.

The cost of living can mean that parents struggle to provide a proper winter coat or shoes, it’s a ridiculous idea that they can suddenly stretch to a bike, helmet, and a secure lock, weatherproof and hi vis clothes to cycle in, all the rest of it. Schools don’t have showers available for kids to use after a long hot cycle journey.

Loads of Londoners can’t keep a bike anyway because of very small living spaces with common parts that must be kept clear, so nowhere to store a bike safely.

Also this isn’t just about school journeys- kids need to be able to get to places where they can socialise, do sports, get to a park, get to their part- time job, volunteer, engage with whatever public services are assisting them, whatever it is. Freedom to travel is such an important part of learning about independence, as well as looking beyond of your own immediate surroundings, all of these are really important parts of growing up.

Youve just described the country. How do you think children in other places do all of the above?

I'm not sure that the BBC have reported it correctly. TfL have to follow the gov statement for free school travel which is

All children between 5 and 16 qualify for free school transport if they go to their nearest suitable school and live at least:
• 2 miles from the school if they’re under 8
• 3 miles from the school if they’re 8 or older

The important part is that it has to be your nearest school that is over 2 miles away. So I think if you've avoided your shit local for a better school further away you wouldn't qualify.

www.gov.uk/free-school-transport

I was 18 and at university the first time I ever caught a bus at a bus stop. I hadn't had the opportunity to go on a bus before because public transport was pretty much non existent in the town where I grew up. My friends were the same.

We all became functioning adults despite not having access to public transport as teenagers.

I don't doubt that it's nice for teenagers to be able to take a bus somewhere to meet their friends or go to an activity or get a part time job. But it's a bit of a stretch to think that they'll suffer horribly. Unless you think that all teenagers who grow up outside of London are deprived, lacking in human contact and unable to stand on their own two feet.

This thread has really opened my eyes as to what some people take for granted.

NeedMoreTea I have read that too about the nearest 'suitable' school thing. The problem is that all the schools seem to have different admission rules and often you can't send your child to the nearest school whether you wanted to or not. My nearest secondary school admissions are 100% lottery. So even if you live literally next door there is no guarantee your child will get a place there.

formerbabe

This is disgusting. Whilst pensioners retain their free travel?

Why is it disgusting? Children in other places don't get free travel unless it is to/from school if the distance (as the crow flies) is 2 miles for primary and 3 miles for secondary aged pupils.

Unless a child has a disability or health condition that makes it unsafe to do so, a 2 mile walk should not be a problem.

Comparing child fares to over 65s fares is a bit daft really, isn't it?

As a mum of a school child I am not so much interested in cost if free or otherwise. In the middle of the highly contagious invisible pandemic why would anyone risk using hop on hop off Covid tag team musical chairs mobile enclosed incubators on wheels. Surely TfL busy shared public mass transportation is a major vector for transmission. TfL themselves realised drivers were fatally impacted whist driving thousands of passengers and have long imposed emergency measures including heavily reduced passengers capacity to a third of designed capacity to enable some social distancing and risk mitigation.

London have schools in all neighbourhoods built specifically to cater for local residents for their short waking (or cycling) convenience. Handy especially in a pandemic as to not be the school's weak link in connecting from home bubble to enlarged school bubble. Indeed many families move into certain small school catchment areas for schooling rather than commute long distance pass countless local schools. It only takes one super spreader and the consequences are as with care homes potentially.

The front of today's Evening Standard headline reads (quote) "WALK TO SCHOOL TO HELP BEAT VIRUS". Sums it up nicely.

Sorry, but this is ridiculous.

I grew up in an urban area, and I walked the 2.3 miles to and from school every day, in all weathers and along busy roads. It took me about 40 minutes and I did it every day for 5 years.

When I go back to my parents, students are all doing the same. The kids living next door to my school parents walk the exact same route I did. Because that's the standard in the country. The expectation is that secondary children can walk to school up to three miles each way.

I really don't understand what's so special about London children that means they cannot walk 3 miles like every other child, in other large towns and cities, or those that live in villages. In fact, the only exception I would see would be for rural areas.

My eldest is about to start her A levels. Our closest secondary school is in another village about 5 miles away, again on a busy A road with no street lights and no pavements. It's not a wide road. Here the free bus passes only go up to 16 (as standard) so to get her to the local secondary school would cost over £1,000 a year. And that's just for the bus there and back. It doesn't cover any other buses she might get on.

So no, really can't see why London children can't walk to school like everyone else does.

@bookmum08 the way it works in other areas is that your application is considered against whether you would have got a place if you applied. If a parent applies for places at SCHOOL B, School C and School D which are less than 3 miles and then can't get a place and is allocated a place at school A which is 5 miles away then the child gets a free travel. If they only applied to schools X Y and Z which are all over 3 miles away but didn't apply to their nearest schools at all then they would not get free travel. Lots of LAs used to give exceptions for faith or single sex schools but removed this due to budget cuts.
The measurement for distance is the safest walking distance from the school. So short cuts across parks etc are not considered.

The person who gave the example of free buses in Manchester. It's a free bus around the city centre itself and connects the train stations to the shops and the new office developments at Spinningfields. It's really not comparable with TfL as it's pretty much a mini bus every 10 minutes. It's usually quicker to walk along most of the route.

We live in a very small town. Our nearest sixth form is 9 or 10 miles away. And unless you're on benefits, you have to pay for your kids to get there by public transport. It costs a fucking fortune.

So yeah, my sympathy is a bit limited, though I can appreciate that the lack of clarity and the short time-frame is making it worrying for families on tight budgets.

At least in London you still have lots of police. The response time here is anything between 25 mins (nasty RTA, casualty groaning on the tarmac) and sometime tomorrow if it's only a burglary.

@bookmum08 I'm sure no one will come knocking if you tell them you live in Muswell Hill

Councilworker that sort of makes sense. I think. One issue with where I live is it's literally a crossroads of four boroughs. My road is actually one of the borders - one side is one borough, opposite is another. The school nearest to me (the lottery admission one) is actually in the borough I don't live in. My daughter's school is in our borough (probably actually similar distance away from lottery school) and there is a girls Catholic school almost opposite across the road that is a third borough.
Of course you can apply for any school you want but when it comes to any form of funding it has to come from your 'home' borough. And they don't always want to pay funds for a child who isn't in one of 'their' schools.
Question is will the boroughs pay out for transport if a child is not at school in their home borough?
Who knows? Cos Transport for London aren't telling anyone anything !!

PolPot I don't live anywhere near Muswell Hill.
I live in a completely different place called Hill.

(there's lots of Hills in London )

@bookmum08 the LA I work for pays for children to attend schools in other boroughs provided they haven't travelled past a load of our schools to get to St Mary's of the Perpetual A*. Which did used to happen a lot. Children from low income households (free school meals/full UC entitlement) have some additional entitlement so they can travel to their nearest faith schools and can travel to a school a bit further away so long as there aren't 3 or more nearer schools that they could have applied to and been given a place

I'm raging about it too. Can't believe our government made this a condition of the TFL following the rules.

I think it shouldn't be a race to the bottom and a lot of government policy has been set for London and the benefit of Londoners. I didnt realise this until I moved out. Its one of the reasons this country is in the mess it is.

And whilst housing is expensive in London it also appreciates quicker than anywhere else. Pretty much everything else is more expensive outside of London, including the cost of petrol. We also get less school funding - a lot less.
Children also travel long distances. Last year both of mine did between 16 and 20 miles in opposite directions. - about £1900 a year.

If the government was half way decent we'd have a better strategy for everyone.

@DateLoaf I think it’s awful that the subsidy is being removed. All the posters moaning about how they don’t get good or affordable services locally to them, so everyone else should have crap services. hmm That’s a rubbish argument. It’s not a race to the bottom. (better to write to your MP and council and support campaigns for better or more affordable services locally..)

I agree completely, but in a world where there isn’t an indefinite amount of money for transport it’s not fair that London receives 2.5 times higher subsidy per head than the rest of the UK. Sorting that out means that some of the subsidised transport enjoyed by Londoners has to be removed.

Oh i can’t wait for my 4 high school girls to be walking home in the dark on a road that runs beside a forest because there is no path on some of the roads that lead to their school! Sounds very safe for them 🙄

I won’t be able to afford travel for four teenagers who have to get two buses to school and two back but isn’t quite 2 miles away, just in an awkward place. Thought this out really well. May have to deregister and homeschool.

A lot of families where I live have to manage the first two miles to a pick up point then several miles by bus. As some roads are 60 mile and hour narrow lanes, steep, high hedges, no buses, parents take and fetch every day! Really don’t think the ask is unreasonable.

In London, anyone over 60 gets free bus travel, and train travel at certain off peak times, not just pensioners.

Many of the MPs get free travel because of this.

I am worried for all those kids who will now end up having to walk through the wrong postcode and get stabbed by rival gang members. I am worried for those kids who will no longer be able to afford bus travel to their youth club and have to walk home at night at risk of being attacked.

London is vast - it's not all Oxford Street and Houses of Parliament. There are vastly different areas with some being not very safe at all for a variety of reasons.

@istherelifeafter40

The question is how this will be decided. Because if you DECIDED to send your child to, say, a grammar, or they got in some school as a musician - and not the nearest allocated school - will they give free travel then? I do doubt it

I would also like to know this as my DS goes to our nearest grammar school which is over 2 miles away and there is also a school in my borough that selects a small number of children on music ability.

I am worried for all those kids who will now end up having to walk through the wrong postcode and get stabbed by rival gang members. I am worried for those kids who will no longer be able to afford bus travel to their youth club and have to walk home at night at risk of being attacked.

Were you worried before about all the kids everywhere else in the country already having to do this?

I'm also worried about the zip cards now having a cash value and being stolen by bullies inside school and muggers outside school.