London parents - Free bus travel for children suspended from October half term

[Poundpup]

I just came across this article whilst browsing the BBC site and it seems that free transport for under 18s will be suspended temporarily directly after the October half term. With exceptions for those travelling to school more than 2 miles away.

Does anyone know how much a child's fare is? As nowhere seems to indicate what the incoming children fares will be.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53694922

I do not know why London children travel free, as I definitely had to pay when I was younger and needed to use public transport. To be honest I am not sure who is subsidising the fares. Profits from TFL? Government grant?

Instead of there being a discord between London and the regions. I think it should be national policy for all children's school journeys to be free/heavily subsidised.

I agree MrsAmaretto. London transport is (mostly) frequent and cheap. It's just this change is a bit of a thing to just dump on parents who weren't expecting to have to budget for it.

Where are they having to budget though?

The difference is that transport for London is essentially government owned so free/subsidised transport is driven by government policy. Outside London provision for public transport is very patchy and mostly private provision - so local bus companies don’t offer free travel for children as they are there to make a profit.

Cost per journey is also more expensive outside London.

2 miles is a reasonable walking distance and it makes sense to withdraw free travel for 2 miles and under. Provision should remain for those that cannot walk 2 miles.

Poundpup I may be completely wrong but I am sure I read somewhere once that some of the money from the Congestion Charge helps fund the free travel. I genuinely have no clue if that's correct.

[quote Hercwasonaroll]@TitianaTitsling are you in London?

I think the PP is so I don't understand why she has to pay now.[/quote]
No, rural, have a post about 6 miles from school along A roads so v un-London!

I don't know what the fuss is about tbh.

It's because it is another stick for some to try and beat the tories with, considering this is months old news, Khan had some negotiation power and decided this was one he tabled is irrelevant, some people want to stoke up the online anger in a 'won't someone think of the children' rhetoric now we are in the run up to schools re-opening.

It's being muted in quite a few left leaning activists whats app groups as talking points on social media

Ah right. Most places do have to pay for school transport. Lodoners are getting a good deal with a 2 mile pass.

What a tragedy, poor Londoners having to pay like everywhere else in the Uk. I mean what's the point of a transport system that's far superior, and in most cases cheaper than everywhere else if you actually have to pay for it?

Perhaps we should start a petition for everywhere else to have their budgets slashed further so more can be spent on London. Oh no, my mistake we do that anyway.

Howling at the idea London dc need public transport to get anywhere. Yes, because every other city in the Uk is only a few miles in circumference, and towns and rural areas have everything a short stroll away.

Seriously, being blind to how the rest of the country lives is one thing, not having a basic primary level grasp of geography is quite another.

Some very London centric comments here - yes it is Transport for London but it has been bailed out by the whole country.

@Kpo58
Like the rest of the country, pay! My DD's pass was £285 a year

Okay some of the last few comments are unnecessary. At no point in this thread did I say that Londoners are special. However as a Londoner, children have travelled free on public transport for a long time and this will be a change. At present time TFL has not confirmed any price structures or how it will work and I think there is nothing wrong with asking on a chat board if anyone had managed to glean any further information.

@istherelifeafter40

Buses cost more outside of London. It's £6.20 return here, no bus travel provided post 16.

Exactly as Poundpup said. Transport for London need to just say what the fares will be so we know in advance. But at the moment they are keeping it secret !!
Poundpup I am guessing it will be half adult price. So 75p a journey, £2.25 daily cap. So £11.25 a week. But who knows if I will be right? Fingers crossed...

bookmum08 - yes fingers crossed it will be half. Hopefully, the exact details will be confirmed soon.

I agree announcing prices is absolutely necessary. However, as everyone has pointed out every other part of the country involves parents having to pay, it is 3 miles before free travel so 2 is a bonus. Certain benefits also entitles you to free school travel.

Bus fares are expensive, it is the way it is.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

Transport in many places is only paid to nearest school and over 2 miles. Why can’t children walk two miles in London. It’s flat and has pavements. (Unlike hilly rural areas)

London isn't flat!

Another Londoner confused about all the fuss. It sounds as if poorer children and children with disabilities/additional needs will still receive help? Anyone travelling over 2 miles to school still receives free travel. What is the issue exactly? There are thousands of London based children from affluent backgrounds whose families do not need a free bus pass and I've never understood why this was rolled out to all school children. It should always have been means tested.

There are some very melodramatic posts on here about the impact this will have. I grew up in a very deprived area of London when free travel for school children didn't exist. We were not trapped in our area as a result. London doesn't really work like that. There are reasons some young people in London nowadays do not leave their immediate area (sadly mainly to do deal with gangs / postcode wars) but the cost of bus fare is unlikely to be one of them. Do people really think the average 15 year old will suddenly not step foot outside their borough because they have to pay 80p to get on a bus?

It’s true that more notice would be helpful to parents and that some children will lose out because they can’t travel, however free travel for children has only been possible in London because the level of government transport subsidy per head is so out of kilter with the rest of the country.

In 2018-19, £903 was spent in the capital for every resident, while the north had £376. Some areas had less; £268 in the East Midlands and £276 in Yorkshire and the Humber.

Fares in London are significantly cheaper than elsewhere with, for example a capped single bus fare if £1.50 compared to an average single fare in Manchester of £4.

Londoners appear to be getting some breathing space with all school journeys over 2 miles being paid, everywhere else in the country it’s over 3 miles and only in certain circumstances (usually when no closer space is available.

I imagine this was one of the conditions of the DfT bailout as it’s been a problem for years and TfL and more likely the Mayor wouldn’t address it as it would be so unpopular.

For those complaining about over 60’s travel (although it’s actually over 66/67 now) it’s a national scheme paid for centrally by DfT although with some local add ons, and therefore mostly outside of TfL control. Worth noting though that other areas of the country (Manchester and North East for example) have been having to charge pensioners for the add on bits to balance the books because their subsidy is so much lower.

It may not be 'flat' but am sure it's more designed for pedestrians than windy, rural A roads in rural environs? It may not be pleasant and easy to walk up a gradient, but at least there's not the worry of being taken out by tractors, cattle trucks, or dickheads zooming along the narrow country roads!

The OP is not unreasonable at all to ask what the price is. When adult train/bus tickets change price there is a notice period and posters etc advertising the new price. If the price has not been decided yet then it's not unreasonable UK announce when people can hear the decision. Hopefully this change is well publicized in London so kids aren't caught short first day after half term.

London Freedom Passes for 'pensioners' are available on 60th birthday. Elsewhere in country, it's true retirement age.

Who on earth takes subsidised travel away from children, what kind of monster government do we have?

This has to go into the competition for one of the most ridiculous posts on MN for a while.

@Poundpup - unfortunately your perfectly reasonable question / thread was taken over by istherelifeafter40 's rather ridiculous posts, which is what most posters are replying to, not your original query.

It has been stated over and over that dc who travel more than 2 miles will still get free transport, so I really can't see what the issue is. It just brings London a litle bit more in line with the rest of the Country.

This is disgusting. Whilst pensioners retain their free travel?
Completely agree.

The free travel for pensioners should be means-tested at the very least. Why does being a pensioner = free travel.

Again, it's the kid from abusive or disadvantaged families that will really suffer from this. Won't be long before truancy rates soar and attendance percentages drop.

I think it’s awful that the subsidy is being removed. All the posters moaning about how they don’t get good or affordable services locally to them, so everyone else should have crap services. That’s a rubbish argument. It’s not a race to the bottom. (better to write to your MP and council and support campaigns for better or more affordable services locally..)

There are factors relevant in London (a megacity) that are just different from other areas of the country, even the other big cities- very high volumes of motor and cycle traffic and people on pavements in rush hour and kids with big distances to cover to get to school. This is often to do with the immense cost of housing in London- these factors mean that not all children will be able to walk or cycle to a nearby school.

The cost of living can mean that parents struggle to provide a proper winter coat or shoes, it’s a ridiculous idea that they can suddenly stretch to a bike, helmet, and a secure lock, weatherproof and hi vis clothes to cycle in, all the rest of it. Schools don’t have showers available for kids to use after a long hot cycle journey.

Loads of Londoners can’t keep a bike anyway because of very small living spaces with common parts that must be kept clear, so nowhere to store a bike safely.

Also this isn’t just about school journeys- kids need to be able to get to places where they can socialise, do sports, get to a park, get to their part- time job, volunteer, engage with whatever public services are assisting them, whatever it is. Freedom to travel is such an important part of learning about independence, as well as looking beyond of your own immediate surroundings, all of these are really important parts of growing up.