London parents - Free bus travel for children suspended from October half term

[Poundpup]

I just came across this article whilst browsing the BBC site and it seems that free transport for under 18s will be suspended temporarily directly after the October half term. With exceptions for those travelling to school more than 2 miles away.

Does anyone know how much a child's fare is? As nowhere seems to indicate what the incoming children fares will be.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-53694922

@Puffykins

London teenagers should get free transport because, typically, their homes are smaller (often significantly smaller) than those of teenagers elsewhere (due to London property being SO expensive) and thus they have nowhere to meet their friends. Sure they can hang out on the estate, or in local parks, but at the more deprived end of the spectrum - and those deprived areas are throughout London, wherever there are estates and where parents are working zero hours contracts etc. and so are less present - there are also gangs. How much better to be able to meet friends outside of their postcode, or to be able to go to one of the (many) free museums etc. Living in London is amazing, but it is also a trade-off: space for opportunity. Taking away free transport is taking away opportunities from the most underprivileged. And rather than 'why shouldn't London teenagers pay when kids in other cities have to?' Well, they shouldn't. Urban public transport should be free - especially as it discourages cars etc. Which will then make the roads safer for cyclists. Or it should be means tested. As it should be for the elderly, too. If your parent is eligible for child benefit, the child is eligible for freee travel, or something.

So london teenagers should get free transport so they can socialise with friends in free museums and different postcodes ... yeah thats going in the dumb folder. These problems apply on other parts of the country too. Shift work, small houses and younger siblings all meant that me and my friends always socialised outside on the estate, we had no other choice.

I'm actually on the side of keeping the subsidy, seems like a positive thing for children but arguments like this are fucking bizarre.

See, I can understand London parents being peeved that a 'perk' their children had is being taken away but to try and say that poverty, cultural capital etc. doesn't exist outside London is frankly insulting, so yes, don't be surprised that those of us living in rural counties receiving 40% less finding per child, where every "service review" on the local bus service = it gets cut again, child day fares cost £2.50 to have much in the way of sympathy! Oh, and newsflash for you, often it's the poor in these areas that don't have cars either, so when the bus service gets cut so it starts at 9am they can no longer get to work... Happy days.

I think some people may have misunderstood my post or are just being factious. Of course London children can walk 2 miles to school and the older the child is the less of an issue this becomes. However would you really send your new year 7 child off on a two mile walk without prepping the journey with them ahead of time. This remains my only issue and that by faffing around and not given London parents a heads up the powers that be are not appreciating the diversity of those children living within the London boroughs.

OP I don't think anyone has misunderstood your post. You've made it clear that it's the not knowing that's the problem.

Its other posters who have jumped on to say that london children need the free travel for, among other reasons, socialising in other postcodes, becasue they are not streetwise, becasue they are not used to walking 2 miles and a whole other host of reasons that posters seem to think are unique to london (but are anything but unique).

@Poundpup For all I really don't see a problem, I do think you and one or two others have a point with the lack of information, and I appreciate you didn't start or join in with the stupid reasoning from pps.

I do think your last post is illustrating the wide divide though. Round here 2 miles is what a lot of dc do just to get to the bus stop for an extortionate school service. People just show their dc the route a few days or maybe a week before they start if they aren't familiar with it. Both my dc were very new year 7's when they first used city public transport to meet with friends, and I'm afraid other than telling them to look it up I expected them to figure it out, I'm sure London dc are equally capable and can manage a short walk without too much prepping.

Exactly @trainspottingwelsh. I'd been prepping DS on the bus route for 6 months (he has ASD and looks small and vulnerable for his age), but then lockdown. Luckily there's no reason he can't walk the distance, but getting him to reliably walk at speed to get to school on time, taking the hill into account (it's one most cyclists avoid), will need practice.
Which I can't do with him atm as I'm still recovering from Covid and 5 min on the flat is pushing it.

I think many parents will have a nasty shock shortly after term starts when their kids' Oyster card suddenly stops working.

I paid almost £100 each per month for my kids to travel 3 miles to schools, outside of London. I never have understood why it's free in London and it seems like under your new rules my DCs' fare would still have been covered.

The free travel in London has been a generous free perk. Hardly anywhere else in the country has this.

I'm London/Surrey borders and a few miles out of the free travel zone. My DD travels 2.8 miles to school by bus (before Coronavirus). We pay. Everyone else pays. There's no discount unless the school journey is over 3 miles around here.

London children are now just being treated more like everyone else except it's temporary and it's because of a massive financial crisis.

However would you really send your new year 7 child off on a two mile walk without prepping the journey with them ahead of time.

It's now August and this doesn't change until the end of October. Plenty of time to prepare.

The zip card was only introduced in 2008, prior to this all London children paid half the adult fare on buses to get to school.Which seemed fair.
The adult fare On a bus in London is £1.50 so it would seem it will probably go back to this as otherwise new software/hardware etc would have to be loaded to the equipment.The alternative is they alter the systems and a child would still have the option to bus it to and from school but it will cost 75p per journey which would need to be loaded onto the oyster either via a shop or via weekly top up by bank account which you can set automatically when the oyster gets low.

@Poundpup if this is not coming in till Oct 30th or thereabouts you have time to teach your children the route , factor in obstacles that can happen etc, 11 weeks from now.
There will be letters sent out to parents of zip card holders prior to this I’m sure.There would likely be a press campaign too as TFL do that with any major shift change on transport that they wish to inform on.

I too think that London teenagers were lucky to have this perk before.
None of the kids here in Surrey have it.
Apparently most of the yellow school buses are being stopped locally, so no service will be provided at all. People are not happy.

I’m sure.There would likely be a press campaign too as TFL do that with any major shift change on transport that they wish to inform on

This definitely has not happened. A change has been made to the Congestion Charge zone without informing residents. I live in the zone and have a c charge account and have had nothing. The c charge now extends to 7 days a week 7am to 10pm which means no one can visit us by car or deliver anything to us or collect us by car at any point. My family used to visit at the weekend. Now they cannot unless they can use public transport.

This is a real difference to those living elsewhere. And If I move within the zone I won’t get the residents discount either which will mean £15 per day every single day to use the car. Nowhere else in the country has those sorts of restrictions.

We have had not a single letter or email about this. I know why these changes have been made although I think they are the wrong changes. But I do not know why this has not been communicated to residents.

Yeah TfL aren't the greatest of communicators. Many Londoners don't realise that 5 - 10 year olds can get free travel on trains/tube if they have a 5 -10 Zip Card (photo one). They barely advertise that and some staff members seem to be aware of it and others don't.

And in the rest of the country our dc are walking to schools under 2 miles away and for dc attending the only school with a 6th form we have to pay £950 per year for the bus.

I mean, seriously my dc could run (slowly) a 5k at age 7 so why can’t dc walk in London? I can’t understand why any parent would want their dc on public transport right now!

dc attending the only school with a 6th form we have to pay £950 per year for the bus

I’ve just paid £660 for a term

@bookmum08 anyone aged under 11 automatically gets free travel , they don’t have to have 5-10yr old zip to get the free travel .
A zip oystercard is only needed for a child aged over 11 yrs.

[quote Gohackyourself]@bookmum08 anyone aged under 11 automatically gets free travel , they don’t have to have 5-10yr old zip to get the free travel .
A zip oystercard is only needed for a child aged over 11 yrs.[/quote]
No, that’s not right.
Children under 5 get free travel on everything.
Children of 5-10 do not get free travel on the tube. They do on the bus or tram.
You need a 5-10 card to get free travel on all services.

Apologies @daisypond if travelling with an adult-

Gohack see what I mean !! A lot of folks don't realise. Under 11s don't need any form of card on buses/trams but on trains/tubes if over 5 they either have to have a paid paper ticket or the 5 - 10 Zip to go free.
It's like TfLs little secret. I have so many friends who had been buying paper tickets for their kids on trains/tubes because they didn't know.

Also Gohack the 'if travelling with an adult' is misleading because the child has their own personal card. So when we go on the train or tube I would beep my Oyster through the barrier and daughter her 5 - 10 Zip. Both separate - so how it could be proved that she was 'travelling with an adult'? My Oyster I used then was a pay as you go one that I had never registered (you don't have to) so it's not like the cards were linked. And if she was travelling with my mum or sister they would have paper tickets (not Londoners so didn't have Oyster cards) so again not linked.
Essentially the 'when travelling with an adult' rule is a bit of a fib from TfL !!

An under 11 doesn’t need a zip if they are travelling on buses or with an adult on other TfL services. They do if they are travelling on non TfL services that use the Oystercard (some of the rail services).

tfl.gov.uk/fares/free-and-discounted-travel/5-10-zip-oyster-photocard?intcmp=55572#on-this-page-0

“When you don't need a 5-10 Zip Oyster photocard

Your child doesn't need a photocard to:

Travel free on buses and trams
Buy child-rate paper tickets (unless they look older than 10)
Travel accompanied by an adult on Tube, DLR, London Overground, TfL Rail and some National Rail services”

Chazs actually yes you are right. My part of South London doesn't have the tube so we have to use trains and it's correct that kids between 5 - 10 need the Zip for the train but not the tube. Although if they beep their card at a tube barrier it doesn't charge them anything.

Jesus 2 miles is nothing to have to walk, it certainly shouldn't take a child 40 minutes unless they're walking on their hands or using stilts.

In most areas you only get free bus travel for 3+ miles and you get none at all if you've chosen to send your child to a school more than 3 miles away rather than your nearest school.

Although it gets even more confusing on the routes that have both London Overground trains (ie TfL ones) and Southern Trains (not TfL) running along exactly the same route and piece of track. Once you have beeped into the station there is no way of knowing if the card is being used on an Overground train or Southern one. You beep in and out of the stations not the trains and it's all the same barriers. I remember asking several members of staff (TfL and Southern) whether we had to pay for Overground - I could never get a straight answer !!

Yes Bloomburger it's been said several times over that it's perfectly fine for teens to walk a couple of miles and the rest of the country pays etc etc. The issue is Transport for London changing the 'rules' and being vague about it and/or not highly advertising it.