You’re in charge of the Gov policy on tackling obesity. Give me your five point plan...

[MrsGrindah]

I’m sick of reading lots of vague pledges . What , in your experience , would work? NB I’m not Michael or Boris just interested having struggled with weight all my life. You don’t have to cost it etc..just what do you think would work if it could be done.

Mine would be:

1. Sugar fines or levies not taxes on producers of core foods eg processed food and drink manufacturing. Fines have a completely different association than taxes
2. Weight management education running through a variety of classes eg home Ed, biology, PE etc. at school and also part of any childcare classes
3. School meals to have complete overhaul. No pizza, chips etc. More expensive yes but cheaper than the cost of obesity
4. Zero tolerance on fat shaming in schools.
5. Doctors to have more rights to refuse treatment for weight related health problems ( unless life threatening) until patients agree to a weight loss plan of action that is supported by suitably trained healthcare professionals.

Taxes / fines which are past onto the consumer so only the rich can afford sugary/fatty foods.

Compulsory exercise twice a day in schools and staff incentives for attending fitness classes at work

Fruit and vegetable deliveries forming part of any benefit claim with recipe cards

No advertising of sugary /fatty I n telly. Anything that's primarily red on those little cakorie/fat counters on the packets? Barred from TV.

All sweets /cakes / crisps etc sold from behind the counter to over 16s only. Same for chip shops etc, no sales to unaccompanied minors

Compulsory school lunches to 16

Lack of Time is a key issue in the struggle against obesity for most middle income families and poverty is a key issue for lower income families.

Both could be addressed by bringing in the 4 day week.

For those in work flexible working and home based working could be promoted.

I would also provide free and healthy school meals for all children and give vouchers for fresh vegetables to everyone on benefits.

The fourth point would be to incentivise living close to your workplace and walking or cycling to work. I would promote walking buses for school children.

The final point is to provide coaching style or CBT support for individuals who are trying to lose weight. This could be in groups or individually according to preference.

I also think we need to upskill kids at school so that they can menu plan and budget to feed themselves and have basic cooking skills when they leave school.

Here’s my 5 point plan:

1. Stop stuffing yourself and move more
2. Stop stuffing yourself and move more
3. Stop stuffing yourself and move more
4. Stop stuffing yourself and move more
5. Stop stuffing yourself and move more

It is not the government’s fault if one is fat and you know it. Own your shit!

I think government sponsored food box schemes would work so well.

Things like hello fresh are great but expensive and not the healthiest. Obviously people would need to pay for it but maybe a cost price initiative from the government where you can choose your food. Or vouchers if obese.

I’ve been fat and skinny. When I was fat I struggled mostly with 2 things:

1. Knowing what to cook, I would reach for ready meals or takeaways because I was too tired/depressed/stressed to think about cooking and buying ingredients.
2. Prices of healthier convenience options were more expensive. Could get a pizza for 80p but weight watchers ready meal around £4. Yes cooking from scratch may be cheaper but mentally I couldn’t face shopping and finding recipes.

I was always very fit when I was fat though, I did atleast 10,000 steps a day so moving wasn’t the issue - I think weight is at least 90% diet.

Something like diet fresh where it’s delivered to your door on a weekly basis, choose your breakfast, lunch, dinner and snack. It will change habits too.

1. Midwives need to be much more proactive wrt education of women in early pregnancy. Pregnancy is a major trigger for weight gain and many women just never shift it and increase weight at every pregnancy.

Despite every bit of evidence the idea still seems to exist you need to eat for two. You don't. It's lovely I know, to stuff your face guilt free because you are pregnant, but you spend years trying to shift that extra weight.

1. Education in schools

3 responsible advertising

4 bigger calorie information on foods, where you can see it immediately, and reduction of sugar, fats etc.

1. Stop normalising obesity. It's not healthy. Covid has taught us that.

There was an idea from one economist to start paying people for cooking healthy meals from scratch at home.

"Eat less, move more. Simple" isn't helpful because you need to provide the facilities for people to do so. So subsidise gyms, free classes"

But they don't have those things in countries with lower obesity rates. I really don't think it's the cost of the gym that's the issue, it's the will to do something about your weight problem.

For those of you who would like to see better mental health provision how should this look?

Mine would be that people with depression, anxiety and some food related issues and even some with trauma would attend a hiking/ swimming/ cycling group therapy setting with a qualified psychologist. Time taken out of working hours, so 1- 2 hour sessions can take place. (Current laws of reasnoble time off are in place) As you move through the programme, you will do the exercise in evening or weekend to demonstrate that you can make time. Those with DC and no child care will be allowed to bring them along. The focus should be on exercise and achieving goals. Not pills and oh you poor thing what could YOU do different? Mindfulness = fresh air and exercise.

I dont think there is anything that can realistically be done about it.

And I am not convinced it is all down to over eating. Men arguably eat more food & less home cooked/healthy stuff than women (who generally are better at taking care of themselves). Yet it seems you see so so so many more fat young women than fat young men. The men dont tend to really pile it on until middle age.

I think part of it is hormones - contraceptives, in food etc. I think they mess about with women causing PCOS, weight gain, etc.

Women have lost their shape, even when they're slim-ish they tend to be quite thick round the middle with no waist.

Its just my own personal hunch but I would be interested to hear what others think.

1. Proper home economics classes in schools (in all her time at school my 16 year old has only been shown how to cook stodgy stuff, with half the 'ingredients' pre-prepared due to limited lesson time- she has learned other stuff at home but lots of kids won't have). Covering how to budget, buy food, meal plan, adapt a recipe to use what you have etc. Taught by people with proper qualifications. Ingredients provided by school as a pp said (and properly funded by government).
2. Free, mandatory, healthy school meals for all children.
3. Free fun activity classes, open to all, on every street corner/park etc. Free use of sports centres for all.
4. Get rid of franchise/MLM based weight loss classes. Replace them with specialist classes run by people with proper experience/qualifications in dealing with diet/obesity- including proper counselling for the many people are emotional eaters etc.
5. Stop talking about sugary/fatty food as a 'treat'. In my view this causes problems- 'treat' food implies something good/special etc and fuels the idea of unhealthy food as a reward/pick me up etc.

(FWIW I am overweight)

Men arguably eat more food & less home cooked/healthy stuff than women (who generally are better at taking care of themselves). Yet it seems you see so so so many more fat young women than fat young men. The men dont tend to really pile it on until middle age

That is a very good point. Back in the day men were given bigger portions than women (known on MN as penis portions).
Women are eating the same portions as men but need circa 200 calories less per day.

Men particularly young men tend to be quite active compared to young women, football 5 a-sides etc it's a social life thing.

Mine would be that people with depression, anxiety and some food related issues and even some with trauma would attend a hiking/ swimming/ cycling group therapy setting with a qualified psychologist.

So you'd walk/cycle/swim and then do the therapy? It would be hard to do it at the same time after all. My issues are mostly trauma related but that sounds like utter hell. A friend recently had group therapy in a mixed sex setting and it did more harm than good. You'd need to offer single sex and also sort by ability. For example I have eating issues (I withhold food and drink as self punishment) but I'm also reasonably fit, the pace I'm comfortable hiking is too fast for some of my friends. Also bringing your kids to therapy? Okay for babies but anything older and that's a sure fire way to ensure your kids get screwed up. Again would require sorting by actual issue as someone with say depression/trauma caused by baby loss/infertility is hardly likely to benefit from group therapy with a bunch of babies in tow.

I'd much rather individual tailored therapy with "homework" involving exercise coupled with support to come off medication.

What would I like mental health support to look like?

1:1, at least initially, talking therapy.
I would need a lot of courage to join a group. I did a three mile walk a week ago with a relative who is a complete bitch about my weight and am still in a lot of physical pain. Not that I would ever tell her that. I’m deeply ashamed of my size and need to build up a lot of trust with someone to admit how shit my health and fitness levels are.

Wolfgirl I do wonder how much of that difference is down to activity. Our older relatives had active lives with walking, house work, cooking involving physical labour. My old aunts all grew up gardening and eroding tools and saws. The average young girl today does nothing. It is astounding how many girls have not done anything to make themselves hot, tired or sweaty in ages. The slim but unfit body does look different and less defined. I don’t think it’s true that women eat better - certainly not the young girls I know.

The abolition of traditional PE at school. Team games are a thing to do as an out of school club if you like them, the same as orchestra or debating or whatever else. Instead make the compulsory lesson about health and fitness. Teach children about healthy living and why it matters and provide an opportunity for fun, bullying free exercise. Introduce modern sports kits and nice changing rooms with privacy and decent facilities. Let kids try different activities to find one they like, let them sample different foods, learn to cook etc. That way they are much more likely to stick to good habits. Being forced to bruise my shins knocking over hurdles in my big knickers or laughed at for coming last, again, did not make me love exercise. From 16 I did none at all as I hated it and had no idea it could be ok. Then I was persuaded to try the gym at work. Same with cookery. We made cakes, pies etc but never learned about nutrition or budgeting. A much more modern and holistic approach is needed.

Ban all the large versions of things. Eg in Costa coffee. They make it more socially acceptable to drink a medium if it's called a medium, when actually given the size of it they ought to be considered large. It's interesting to me that in Italy all of the drinks sizes are much smaller. It means you drink water to deal with your thirst and then a small drink of something else for fun. Here I've been known to drink a large latte because I'm thirsty. Masses of calories and it doesn't even count as a meal.

1. Get rid of puddings at school. Make school lunches enough on their own without a pudding. (An exception would be a piece of fruit/low sugar yoghurt). My kids never had puddings before they went to school apart from once a week on a Sunday. School gave them that expectation.

1. Get rid of artificial sweeteners in drinks etc. They make your body crave sugar.

1. Tax restaurants on oversized portions. I firmly believe in everything in moderation but feel we have lost sight of normal portion sizes.

1. School cookery lessons focused on affordable, healthy food. Don't make parents buy lists of obscure, expensive ingredients. Teach kids how to prepare and cook lean meat, fish & vegetables. My daughter's school was better than my son's in this regard.

1. Make exercise something people want to do. Increase options in high school such as dance etc (for girls and boys, my son was not allowed to opt for dance he had to do rugby, only the girls could choose dance), don't force kids into sports they hate. This will mean more funding for qualified sports teachers. More out of school provision that doesn't involve being picked for teams or joining a competitive club.

Mental health is very important. I wonder what people did years and years ago for their mental health beggars therapy became a thing and we couldn't eat our feelings. Lives were very different though in all areas. There was more balance, less tv, no junk food, people were more physically active etc. We need to get the good bits back but keep the progress we've made.

Being forced to bruise my shins knocking over hurdles in my big knickers

I went to school on an army base...those big knickers nearly put me off men for life and I was good at games.

Big knickers definitely need banned as sports kit if they still exist. Girls had to wear them with a t-shirt tucked in. Boys could wear rugby shorts/shirts. Still pisses me off now.

People are fat because they have other issues in their life that they use food to help them with. Mental health problems, relationship issues, poverty and deprivation, low confidence, loneliness. The list goes on

But it's not just that, is it?
I'm slim, always have been. I suffer from depression and anxiety, have a painful condition, have been in a bad, violent relationship, had an alcoholic mother (who died a couple of years ago), I'm a single parent in an area who knows no one (DD doesn't see her father due to aforementioned violence)... the list goes on.
There's lots of people just like me too.

A hard life doesn't automatically = fat. Reducing it to that makes tackling the issue harder; if someone comes across a difficult situation and wants to fill themselves with food, they'll justify it by 'having a hard day'.

We need to start taking accountability for our own bodies.

You won’t realistically tackle obesity until you tackle poverty, low wages, and long working hours. Anything else is really just fiddling around the edges.

It really isn't as simple as move more eat less. And if it were that simple why do you think more people don't do that? Our bodies are complex and how we process food differs depending on the type of food, the sleep we have had, our gut flora etc..... I posted this on a thread recently:

I saw an experiment on BBC once with I think Dr Mosley. It was based on an unethical experiment done on prisoners in the US in the 50s or 60s.

Basically they took a group of slim people and increased their calorie intake significantly for a few weeks. They were not allowed to exercise. They did detailed tests on them to monitor impact. They all put on weight but it varied with some increasing fat a lot and others not so much. The really interesting case was one man did put on a lot of weight but it was ALL muscle. Scientists had no explanation for that.

In the unethical experiment the prisoners were all fed huge amount of calories and their weight monitored. They all gained huge amount of weight but a strange thing happened they all plateaued and didn't gain additional weight when the scientists expected them to. I think they were all confined too as you might imagine. As I said unethical.

Put money into mental health service.
Use taxes on crappy food to make fruit and veg cheaper
Nutrition and healthy eating taught from nursery

Having lived in France for while, apart from the fags I really thought they were onto something. The biggest differences I noticed were 1) people being much more active generally, not going crazy at the gym but lots more walking (with working hours designed to facilitate this), very little snacking culture - I rarely saw a french person carrying an on the go coffee or eating in the street, and a real respect for food. A respect for food provenance, a seasonal approach and a pride in the land - a whole meal being created in honour of the new season leeks from the market for example, every town would have a regular high quality market and people spent much more of their income (as a % on food). I'm not saying that we can replicate but there's a simplicity to the approach I can really get on board with, but again working hours etc have to impact the change.

I agree it’s linked to poverty and low wages but in the past these have always existed but we haven’t had the obesity crises. It’s the money of cheap food full of crap but oh so convenient that’s the issue.