Worried about DD's rituals

[Jourdain11]

I feel a bit bad for posting here, as it seems unfair on DD, but I am worried that I am overreacting and making an issue out of a non-issue.

DD8 lately seems to have developed all these little "rituals" - touching things, going to the toilet multiple times in a row, making little lists. I work in MH (albeit in another area and not with children) and I feel like, over the last few weeks, it's become quite disruptive to her life. A few days ago, she got quite upset and agitated at DH rushing her out of the house because (I think) she hadn't done her things. She also generally seems quite anxious and I've tried to get her talking about it, but she obviously isn't keen.

I don't want to make the mistake of labelling her behaviour as something when it isn't, nor do I want to make her self-conscious, but I feel she's showing OCD tendencies and I am really concerned not to let things get out of control. If she needs help, I want her to get it in a timely way so that this won't take over for her.

DH thinks we should let it be, because it might just "fade away", but my feeling is that it is escalating.

On the other hand, I know it is normal for kids to have some ritualised behaviour, and I am worried about overreacting... which is why I'm posting here, I guess for a neutral and non-involved opinion! Although I appreciate it is difficult when you haven't seen / don't know DD.

As a family, we've had quite a lot of changes and stress recently (who hasn't?) so I guess I am concerned about how this may have affected her.

Thx in advance.

Hi OP,
I hadn't read the full thread and I hope my post above hasn't caused you distress. I have reported and asked for it removed. Best wishes to you and your little one.

I had OCD as a teenager so I sympathise. All my rituals were to keep myself, family, friends etc safe and I genuinely thought that they gave me control over possible future situations.

Don't be disheartened. This can be overcome. You just need the tools to do it.

@barryfromclareisfit

Hi OP, I hadn't read the full thread and I hope my post above hasn't caused you distress. I have reported and asked for it removed. Best wishes to you and your little one.

Oh, please don't worry! Of course what you said didn't upset me and it was helpful all the same, no need to report the post It is my fault for not putting all details in my OP, but I didn't want it to be soooooo long!

My DD (16) has OCD but it is in under control, she was around 10 when it started. She had EMDR and CBT to help her, the older she is the better strategies she has to cope with it. I also recognise her "tells" and we get right on top of it if it starts again.

For her it was anxiety based because back in 2013 I was caught in a situation that involved a man walking into an airport terminal and shooting people ( in the US) I was not harmed but I witnessed the entire event right up to him being shot by a swat team in front of me. He survived and then it went to trial where there was a real chance I could have been called to testify. It took years and finally in 2019 he was put in jail for life. - This is the first time I've shared this info publicly btw, I don't particularly like to talk about it, it happened and it was terrifying at the time. My entire family were stressed because it was over the news and nobody knew what was going on. My kids saw it too, even though DH tried to protect them from it.

Back to my DD, she had a mortality check of large proportions, realised that someone close to her could actually die and she had no control over and it gave her high anxiety which triggered her OCD. She started creating disaster scenarios in her head, she had a lot of rituals involving counting, light switches, leaving the house and placement of items.

You're a great Mum having a difficult time, you have recognised it and if it's impacting her life then defintley get her to see someone, the therapist turned my daughters life around for the better.
Hope you treatment goes well.

That sounds incredibly traumatic for both of you, I'm not surprised that you don't like to talk about it a lot and I'm not surprised either that it triggered anxieties for your DD.

I feel the mortality thing is possibly the issue for DD also, and these rituals kind of crept up. She has always been sensitive and organised and some of the early signs probably we missed, because they didn't seem out of character. But now, I do feel that it is disruptive for her.

I am always worried if I am being too open / not open enough about the leukaemia. She has what we think is an age-appropriate understanding, but maybe we have given her too much information, or not enough. The trouble is as well, that things can change (for example, I had to have an extra induction chemo cycle, I've had unplanned hospital admissions for infections and so on...) so it is unsettling for the kids.

At the start, DD1 was quite open with her worries (what would happen to them if DH got Covid and I was in hospital, what would happen if I got Covid, etc.) but now she is less so. DD2 is quite straightforward (let's say!) in her questioning, and sometimes this gets DD1 quite agitated.

Thanks again for the reading recommendations - I did an Amazon order! It is hard to know the way to approach this, but reassurance is probably a good starting point. I'm not even sure it's worth seeing the GP - think they're only doing tcs at the moment, anyway? And I'm guessing the CAMHS waiting list is ginormous

I have ocd that started in childhood. Lots of good advice on this thread. I’d just like to suggest an alternative to saying it doesn’t matter if she doesn’t do things. I get why you’re saying that, but can I suggest not focusing on what does and doesn’t matter - it matters to her as she’ll be really anxious, and you know that of course, but she doesn’t know you know. So I wondered if you could say something like: “you feel really anxious if you don’t do these things” and name the feeling for her?

I’ve also found this organisation helpful: www.ocdaction.org.uk/

Are there any agencies/ charities that can provide additional support due to your state of health, as well as the GP/CAHMS route.

You've been doing a fabulous job at trying to meet your DCs' needs through out this double whammy you've been dealt.

How were school handling things like distancing and hygiene? Some of the Covid Safe policies are quite insidious for OCD behaviours.

My best friend through the teenage years had her life consumed by OCD and anorexia caused by a trauma in earlier childhood. It is well worth early support.

We had a surprisingly short wait for CAHMS maybe 3 months?
My DD was, and is, hugely reassured by us taking her seriously. It's less lonely.

Before her dinner she went to the toilet about 6 times in a row I asked her if she was worrying and she said she just needed to "make sure" but then said she was worrying about what she was having for tea. They're having their food now and at least she's eating normally. I feel like I need to be here to help her and on Tuesday I have to go into hospital again, so I'm stressing out too. We're all stressing out! Meanwhile DD2 and DS are playing a game that involves insulting each other with the worst names they can think of, which is hardly relaxing!

The school were quite tight on the social distancing stuff, but I guess they have to be. My DH's school was much less so though, by the sounds of it. She's taken all the Covid-prevention stuff very much to heart though. We've been quite careful on stuff like leaving shoes outside and not sharing stuff - as it seemed like a better option than me shielding from the kids completely. Maybe I've inadvertently made her more anxious

@Beamur

We had a surprisingly short wait for CAHMS maybe 3 months? My DD was, and is, hugely reassured by us taking her seriously. It's less lonely.

Ah, thanks - perhaps worth a try then!

Bless you both. Sounds like there is a lot going on.
I had similar and came through it without intervention. I was maybe 8 or 9.
I still have good and bad numbers and colours, and mine was at least partly linked to keeping my parents safe.
Keep communication open and do nice stuff together if you're feeling well enough.
And you sound great. A not great mum wouldn't be posting on here.

I didnt actually think it would work but it was more of "if I dont do such and such it might make xyz happen".

Thank you I just feel like if I was really a good mum then I would be able to help her!

You will be able to help.
Thing is with anxiety/OCD/intrusive thoughts, it's not a one off fix. DD is fine for months on end and then it flares up again. She had a really tough few weeks recently and it's several years since she saw a therapist. But she's back on a mostly even keel. School holidays she finds hard, puberty is happening, covid has been an extremely mixed bag for her anxiety. All these things have pushed her over from coping to struggling.
Once you read up on it a bit it will make it easier for you to say the right things to help.

My DD is also not great with school holidays, generally, actually. So that may not be helping!

I went through a phase like this at about age 9 - though no one really noticed anything except that I damaged my nails scrubbing them obsessively. It gradually faded off without intervention and I was completely over it when I started secondary school. I'm not suggesting that you don't intervene, of course - but just to say that these things can be very reversible.

@BogRollBOGOF

Are there any agencies/ charities that can provide additional support due to your state of health, as well as the GP/CAHMS route.

You've been doing a fabulous job at trying to meet your DCs' needs through out this double whammy you've been dealt.

How were school handling things like distancing and hygiene? Some of the Covid Safe policies are quite insidious for OCD behaviours.

My best friend through the teenage years had her life consumed by OCD and anorexia caused by a trauma in earlier childhood. It is well worth early support.

Thanks for the idea! There are apparently some groups and play therapy type things the kids could have accessed, but they were all on hold due to Covid. It would be worth me asking again though.

@Sniv

I went through a phase like this at about age 9 - though no one really noticed anything except that I damaged my nails scrubbing them obsessively. It gradually faded off without intervention and I was completely over it when I started secondary school. I'm not suggesting that you don't intervene, of course - but just to say that these things can be very reversible.

That's reassuring - thank you!

Hi @Jourdain11 I'm a haematology nurse and on my ward we have a haematology social worker, if your unit has one it would definitely be useful to talk to them. They may be able to refer your daughter or have some strategies to help you all. We look after the whole family as well as the patient.

Good luck with your chemo, do your mouthwashes religiously. Xxx

It's control. When a person feels out of control in some aspects of their life, they overcompensate in other areas and try and co trol themselves.

If you try to stop the person doing the rituals, their reaction to being stopped will tell you how ingrained the compulsive behaviour is. They will try to secretly try to do the ritual and pretend they dont need to do it.

When stress is high, more rituals will be added to the list.

Please do get a referral to mental health services. OCD can be debilitating if left.

My dd and myself display repetitive behaviours when anxious or stressed, her more so than me as I am not easily stressed. For me it is mostly checking the door is locked several times even if I have literally just checked it and standing ft away from it. Dd is asd so that is probably why for her but only when she is under stress, frequent toileting just incase, stepping in and out of door ways several times and if she still isn't satisfied runs back and does it again, Hand washing. She also has intrusive thoughts.

I think it is pretty normal in the sense of finding away to cope but like pp's CAMHS might be a good shout, even if the behaviours pass by the time she sees them they can help in other ways if needed and help dd understand how to deal with stress in other ways. Wishing you all the best.

Thanks very much for the advice, again. I'll definitely ask my unit again about family services (we did speak about it before, but it was at the time when everything was literally upside down because of Covid) and will try to do some reading while I'm in hospital... Hopefully my books are arriving tomorrow!

DD very stressed tonight - lots of up and down and in and out of her room at bedtime, went to the toilet again and again and again before settling down. I read to her and DD2, which they usually love as a treat, but she was very twitchy and distracted, so that didn't really work as a reassurance. DH was losing patience and getting annoyed. I'm feeling a bit stressed too, tbh!