Help me tell DH he needs to start applying for jobs

[SoPanny]

DH has been unemployed for 16 months now.

Was quite high up in finance then contract came to an end and - BOOM - nothing.

We have had some shit happen that’s knocked his job search off course (bereavements and structural issues with house) but it’s been too long.

His confidence is shot and whilst he’s seeing a career counsellor I think she’s a charlatan and feeding him a load of hackneyed Myers Briggs crap.

If I didn’t care about how he felt I’d tell him I’m sick of being sole earner, I’m sick of the way in which he’s piddling about with shit like scrum master stuff and to fucking apply for some actual jobs on LinkedIn.

I am watching his behaviours change and his odd stress reactions resurface and I want him to just actually get applying for jobs so at least he is doing something even if it’s a few rungs below what he’s used to.

How would you approach? Please help as I’ve had months of sitting on this and now I’m incandescent.

With the greatest of respect OP, there are many issues here that need unpicking and your first post made it sound as if your DH was just lazy, when in fact he has had a number of major life changes thrown at him and cannot cope in the way you would cope.

Can I ask, why did he leave his job in London without a job to go to when you moved?
While WFH is becoming more popular, realistically you and your DH must commute to London part of the time for your work - is there no role you can get closer to your home there? If not, would you think of moving back down to London if he got a job?

Is there something in your area where he can volunteer or some community programme where he is up and out every day? Can he access the retraining programmes? My DSis did this, after being made redundant from finance and now works in adult education - and loves it.

I just think you need to broaden your thoughts and perhaps rethink the finance jobs unless you can relocate - after 16 months I think you need to change your tactics.

And yes, I too would feel frustrated, but I have been on both sides of this during my marriage.

I cannot remember the exact tact I took but basically I said apply for a job you can’t not get, cleaner, bar work admin etc etc, massive massive step down but bring in a wage.

Depending on where you live and what the local job market is like these sort of jobs aren't actually that easy to get, especially if it's really obvious that you're doing it as a stop gap. People don't want to employ someone whose last job was finance director as a cleaner because they suspect that they'll leave as soon as they can and there's a fear that they'll try and be in charge. They're also quite likely to have not done all that much cleaning. A lot of low paid jobs also don't particularly want people who might know and assert their employment rights. Jobs like admin aren't actually easy to get - there are loads of people who want admin jobs and who had experience. When they advertised my job at work they got four applications; when they advertised for our team administrator they got 60. I wouldn't have been shortlisted for the admin job because they didn't want someone who could do my job, they wanted someone who had done lots of admin.

I'm not saying that he shouldn't apply for jobs at a lower levels but I just think it's dangerous to tell him to apply for minimum wage jobs on the grounds he'll 'definitely' get them, because it'll damage his confidence a lot further if he then doesn't.

Yes the work he is doing now is relevant and we both kind of need to keep working in London (under normal circs I do 2 days a week, the rest from home, it works and he wants the same)

But did you negotiate that at your current employer? Because that's so much easier than applying for a job and telling them from the off that you want to WFH most of the time - fairly or unfairly, even in places where that is quite a normal work pattern people are likely to wonder about an applicant who wants to come in twice a week after commuting the length of the country and whether that'll actually work for them. It would be one thing if he was headhunted and said he would only consider if remote working was possible, it's quite a lot harder if you're applying to jobs cold.

It sounds like you’ve had a really overwhelming time and I’m really sorry that this year turned out like this...

We like work and we like children and I don’t think I should need to justify this.

No, you don’t need to justify it - my relationship is the same, we both like to work. But I’d recommend having a very frank and honest check in with him that he still feels the same... it doesn’t sound like he likes work right now, it sounds like he’s stalling and procrastinating by learning things that might make it feel more like what he wants to do. That’s a problem, not least because he doesn’t seem to care that it’s getting to you, even if it’s not yet causing financial stress.

If he wants to train and refine his skills, can he make an effort to get bar work or something in the evenings? That’s what I did when I went self employed, to start. I couldn’t guarantee the same stable income we were used to, so I did evening bar work so that the pressure wasn’t all on my fiancé. When things were more established and we could rely on it, I gave it up.

I agree with Annasgirl. You need to unpick the various issues here.

Some points about London finance:

• it doesn’t surprise me that his job interviews were cancelled (in response to another poster who queried this). Large parts of the City were shutting down by that point, well ahead of national lockdown. I know people who were working from home from the first week of March.

• it doesn’t surprise me that he isn’t finding many opportunities right now. It’s the middle of summer, a lot of people have only just got away on their summer break. Plus everyone is slashing budgets and there are hiring freezes all over the place. We’re starting to see redundancies coming through the pipeline too. The key question is what the jobs market will be like in the autumn. I know a lot of people who are making worst-case scenario plans in case they get made redundant in the next few months.

So, unpacking the issues a little ...

• from what you say, this isn’t a financial problem as much as a concern about his morale and - though you haven’t elaborated a lot on this - an underlying frustration that you have got on with things and carried the burden both work and family wise while he hasn’t. You feel unsupported?

• in terms of his wellbeing, you say the chat went badly. Did you use the lines suggested early in the thread, saying explicitly to him I AM WORRIED ABOUT YOU ... ?

• in terms of what you’ve both been through, it is not too late for him to have counselling now. How would he react if you suggested it?

• in terms of work, how would he react if you said you wanted him to take any job going, just to start earning again and get out there? Is that even feasible given your own work commitments, or is is limited by doing the childcare while you’re working?

@Hardbackwriter

Yes the work he is doing now is relevant and we both kind of need to keep working in London (under normal circs I do 2 days a week, the rest from home, it works and he wants the same)

But did you negotiate that at your current employer? Because that's so much easier than applying for a job and telling them from the off that you want to WFH most of the time - fairly or unfairly, even in places where that is quite a normal work pattern people are likely to wonder about an applicant who wants to come in twice a week after commuting the length of the country and whether that'll actually work for them. It would be one thing if he was headhunted and said he would only consider if remote working was possible, it's quite a lot harder if you're applying to jobs cold.

Nope. We moved in spring, I got that role in November.

You have it spot on @SuzieCarmichael

And I really did go in with “I’m worried/it’s worrying me”

With a side of “you have to see it from my perspective”.

Dead loss.

It's not quite as simple as this just being all his fault is it? You both have had some bad luck, and big changes, the move, losing a baby and now corona. There is a lot going on there

Yes maybe some counselling and good career support might help. Maybe he could try self employment. Encouragement and kindness might help more than anger and blame. But it is understandable you feel angry too.

How long is your commute? Is it realistic to have both of you working in London?

Fair enough, but I still think you're underestimating the extent that having requirements about home working and a very limited flexibility as a result is likely to impact on him. Unless his skills are very in demand - and, apparently they aren't - it is going to make it harder.

Also are there any jobs around in his area? Many areas are losing jobs

It's really hard. We've been there twice and its really hard not to blame them and also hard for them to motivate.

DH wanted to use all his spare time doing useful things around the house but was really procrastinating in a way that made it difficult for me to object.

What made the real difference for him was getting loads of applications in via agencies, even jobs that weren't really of much interest . Once the agencies saw he was seriously looking for work, they started calling him. I think loads of people lodge their CVs when they would only move for something remarkable, so agencies don't waste their time with those people.

There is a lot in there OP.
The job market even in London isn't functioning normally at present, so getting work could be problematic.
Is he Scottish himself? If he isn't it could be harder for him to get more casual work locally. How much casual work is there locally?
Then there is the emotional impact of being out of work, of the traumatic birth and near death of your dd.
I'm wondering if pushing counseling might be a good place to start.

I recruit for fairly lowly jobs (so I'm guessing not what DH wants) but I'll admit I do look at the addresses. If they have a long way to travel, experience tells me they'll be unreliable and probably won't stay long.

If I was recruiting for roles in London and the applicant was in Scotland, even though it may be possible to work remotely and commute when necessary, I wouldn't be interested unless the applicant was truly exceptional or I was struggling to fill the role.

Also agree with PP, it's one thing agreeing to wfh for a trusted employee with a good track record, another to agree it from the outset for someone who couldn't physically be in the office if the wfh doesn't work out.

Have I missed why you moved to Scotland when you both need to be in London regularly for work?

You have very young children, the arrangement seems to suit you but I'd hate to be that far from my children on a regular basis. I'd be worried about emergencies and not being able to get back and your DH does have an experience that will make that seem like a very real issue to him.
I remember being called when DS2 was 6yo because he was ill at school and I'd travelled an hour away to meet a friend. I felt wretched about it, which was, I know, an over reaction but to be a day away might not be.

Ok so can you elaborate a bit more about how the conversation went? You said I’M WORRIED ABOUT YOU and what did he do - dissemble, tell you not to worry, get cross ...?
You seem to be venting which is understandable but it’s hard to say anything helpful without a better idea of the conversation you’ve had.

Ps: I’ve had children to contend with all day but thanks to the helpful stuff suggested on this thread. I feel like we all need a right now!