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Original poster

Benefits- unintentional fraud (please help)

86 replies

User9667 · 21/07/2020 16:51

I've just realised (completely out the blew) that I have unintentially been claiming more Universal Credit than I believe I should be.

Was reading something on the news yesterday and it said about savings and UC (that you get deductions for any savings over 6k). I'm a student and have been saving for the past few years (from prev income, child maintenence and student loan). This is from me living extremely frugally in an attempt to eventually get a mortgage and to allow me to relocate/attend multiple job interviews when I get a job (travel to interviews, childcare etc).

I've been up all night terrified that I'm frauding benefits; I feel like a criminal and am extremely anxious. I don't recieve an awful lot because my student loan is taken into account, but I've worked out that I would owe around 1.5k (although hard to work out as my account fluctuates a lot).

I've also seen that if you have above 16k you're not entitled to anything. I was intending to save over this in the next year (by saving a large amoung of my grants and loan), but now I am absoutely lost on what to do. I need to re-pay the money I owe. I have this available to pay back straight away and obviously need to inform them that deductions need to be taken each month, but is this going to go against me?

There's things I've needed this year (a wardrobe as an example) and would have liked to go on a short break away with my DS. Had I of known about this deduction/cap I would have lived like a normal person and stopped being so stingey. I'm thinking next year I should just buy these things that I need and book a short break etc because I'm not going to be able to keep the savings anyway. Obviously I will still be getting deductions from the savings I do have but I suppose there is no point trying to deprive myself and let it accumilate if its just taking of more and more off what I would be entitled to? I've read up about deprivation of capital, but surely this wouldn't be seen as that as these are (IMO) very much normal expenses, I have just been choosing not to spend anything in an attempt to save.

Does anyone know what I can do?? I feel so stupid for not knowing regulations regarding savings, I've had my account way before I started thinking about saving and had absolutely no clue but its giving me extreme anxiety after finding out!!

OP posts:

MyNameHasBeenTaken · 21/07/2020 16:55

No real help, but could you phone them and ask for advice. Without giving your personal information

BendyLikeBeckham · 21/07/2020 17:06

I am sure someone will come along and ask that surely if you have thousands in savings, then why do you need to claim UC, and isn't the taxpayer just funding your house deposit/investment?

Just inform them and take it from there. You won't get done for fraud because you will have told them rather than them finding out (not sure how they would).

Go to CAB and get advice.

Original poster

User9667 · 21/07/2020 17:11

@BendyLikeBeckham As I said I have saved this from student loan/CM/prev income; bits here and there, I only recieve a bit of UC which they said I was entitled too as my grants are not counted as income. Benefits alone would not have been enough to save for a mortgage; no where near.

I can understand what you are saying though. But had I of spent like an average person I would of needed that money. I have almost no furniture and clothes as I have been saving like crazy (stupidly so).

OP posts:

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Benefits General money

Devlesko · 21/07/2020 17:11

Get in touch straight away, you many need your own legal representation not a duty solictor, my dsis got 18 months reduced to one year. At the time she had a newborn in SCU. She hadn't read the rules properly either, they didn't want to know. She signed the forms, should have known etc.
They may be lenient with covid tc, but do it now and either spend your savings or stop claiming.

labyrinthloafer · 21/07/2020 17:15

Well done for saving. Just declare it but do everything in writing. Don't assume they will get things right or understand what you are saying - so everything must be in writing.

Benefits are ridiculously complicated so don't feel bad.

ParisOnWheels · 21/07/2020 17:15

Back in the day when it was housing benefit, I received an inheritance. I spent part of it and was able to keep claiming without being penalised for intentional deprivation of capital.
But that was because I let them know pretty much straight away and sent them proof that I’d recently moved into an unfurnished HA property and spent it on a fridge, microwave, sofa etc.

I think the “short break” is likely to be one they query possibly, depending on what you mean by that.

HoneyBee03 · 21/07/2020 17:19

I'm a bit confused about how someone who is a student and claiming universal credit has that much in savings and plans to continue saving. Surely you'd live off your savings? I know you want enough for a mortgage deposit but so do a lot of people. I'd phone them up to clarify what you have in your savings, then set up a payment plan or repay the overpayment from what you have.

Original poster

User9667 · 21/07/2020 17:22

@labyrinthloafer thank you! would that be writing to DPW, should I email?

@ParisOnWheels how much was you able to spend? I don't mean a luxury holiday or anything, but somewhere for a few days. Had I not of frantically saved I would of done this so I'd hope to do so without it being classed as depriving

OP posts:

labyrinthloafer · 21/07/2020 17:28

@User9667

After reading the thing about solicitor I wonder if you need better advice.

I was going to say be careful they don't decide to treat as fraud, thought maybe I was too cynical, now wondering if it isn't too cynical.

I don't have specialist knowledge.

Oh, and don't feel you have to justify yourself on this thread. Save that for dwp

EmmaGrundyForPM · 21/07/2020 17:33

Don't you have to declare your savings when you claim for UC? If so, did you do so?
I would phone CAB. for advice if I were you.

ParisOnWheels · 21/07/2020 17:38

It’s not a case of how much they will accept but whether you can prove it and that what you spent was a reasonable amount for what you got - e.g. middle of the road argos fridge is ok, fancy Smeg one probably not.

No one needs to go on holiday, I can’t see that being accepted. Particularly if you go to them and it’s part of a list of things you needed that you’ve spent money on.

(And before anyone has a go at me for saying that, I’m a lifelong disabled person who can’t work so claims benefits.)

carben · 21/07/2020 17:47

When you first made your claim for UC you would have needed to declare your savings. Your claim is reviewed yearly and again you would need to re-declare your savings or at least confirm any changes in your savings on that yearly review. As long as your savings match your declarations I can't see how it would be considered fraud. If you are now over the £6,000 min limit you need to let them know so any tariff income can be calculated from the correct date.

Kassandra1 · 21/07/2020 17:52

YABU - your plan is for the taxpayer to keep supporting you by so you can keep saving money towards your deposit? And the way you're going to do that is by spending money on a holiday? Wow.

Pretty sure you have to state how much you have in savings up front and have to re-confirm your situation regularly (annually?) Tbh, I'm not sure the benefit system was set up to support people with ££££s in savings

DianaT1969 · 21/07/2020 17:53

Can you just stop your UC claim now? Just say your circumstances have changed and you no longer need it.
With regards possibly owing them due to having savings above the threshold, it sounds as if you need expert advice before approaching them.
I'm unclear on how this could happen. Don't you have to login to your account sometimes and make declarations, or see someone at a job centre?

Mehmen · 21/07/2020 17:54

I would recommend you tell them now, You will have to pay any overpayment but it’s preferable to a potential criminal record.
Surely you must have known this as it asks about saving and other income on the form

AldiAisleofCrap · 21/07/2020 17:55

Your UC is only reduced by £17.40 each assessment period by every £1000 of savings above £6k . So if you have always had £9k for example you owe £34.80 for every month you have claimed.

AldiAisleofCrap · 21/07/2020 17:56

How much do you have in savings and how long have you been on UC?

Noshowlomo · 21/07/2020 17:57

Stop it straight away, and offer to pay the OP back immediately. Just clear it and hopefully that will be the end of it.

haggistramp · 21/07/2020 17:57

Tbh I dont think i would judge anyone in this position if they didnt say anything. Otherwise how would anyone claiming UC ever manage to get a deposit on a house? Or is that an unintended (or perhaps not) consequence of low earners having to claim UC, that they should never get on the housing market as they are not allowed to save up money for a deposit? How far off are you from getting enough deposit for a house op?

Badoukas · 21/07/2020 18:01

Isnt it the case that you knew you shouldn't be claiming (as it is very clear during the application process) and have since developed a guilty conscience about it?

LangClegsInSpace · 21/07/2020 18:05

They shouldn't treat it as fraud because it was not deliberate, but you might get a civil penalty for acting negligently (£50 I think) and of course you will have to pay back the overpayment. If you are trying to reduce your savings it would make sense to pay it back as a lump sum rather than regular deductions.

However there's no guarantee they won't treat it as fraud so as others have said, get proper advice and make sure you do everything in writing. Writing a message on your online journal is the most efficient way to communicate with them but take screenshots or print copies just in case they close your claim and you lose access to the messages. If they do start investigating for fraud you should see a solicitor asap.

As well as the amount you owe, they will be interested in how long you have had undeclared savings for and whether you had them when you started your claim.

You're likely to come off a lot better if you fess up straight away with an immediate offer to repay, than if you keep quiet and try to reduce it below the threshold before they notice.

So - get proper advice, act swiftly, do it in writing.

ActuallyItsEugene · 21/07/2020 18:07

How long have you been saving for on UC and how much have you saved?

You should really be living off your savings, especially if you've got over £6000 in the bank.

I'd report it to UC and offer to pay the amount back. Have you declared any savings to them?

I'd be inclined to agree with @Badoukas in that it sounds as though you've developed a guilty conscience.
The longer this has gone on for, the less likely they are to be lenient; and the DWP as an organisation aren't exactly known for their kindness.

Speak to someone tomorrow.

labyrinthloafer · 21/07/2020 18:07

@Kassandra1

YABU - your plan is for the taxpayer to keep supporting you by so you can keep saving money towards your deposit? And the way you're going to do that is by spending money on a holiday? Wow.

Just gonna offer you a

because if you read about benefits, you are allowed to save - there are just limits and it has an impact on the amount you can claim.

LangClegsInSpace · 21/07/2020 18:08

@Badoukas

Isnt it the case that you knew you shouldn't be claiming (as it is very clear during the application process) and have since developed a guilty conscience about it?

She's not in the dock just yet!

'I put it to you, OP ...'

HexagonsHecateAndHecuba · 21/07/2020 18:15

How is it unintentional? You are asked about savings during the application process.

State benefits are a safety net designed to help people through hard times. Those with savings are expected to use them to help provide for themselves.

I suspect you've case has been reviewed and this "mistake" has come to light.

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