Benefits- unintentional fraud (please help)

[User9667]

I've just realised (completely out the blew) that I have unintentially been claiming more Universal Credit than I believe I should be.

Was reading something on the news yesterday and it said about savings and UC (that you get deductions for any savings over 6k). I'm a student and have been saving for the past few years (from prev income, child maintenence and student loan). This is from me living extremely frugally in an attempt to eventually get a mortgage and to allow me to relocate/attend multiple job interviews when I get a job (travel to interviews, childcare etc).

I've been up all night terrified that I'm frauding benefits; I feel like a criminal and am extremely anxious. I don't recieve an awful lot because my student loan is taken into account, but I've worked out that I would owe around 1.5k (although hard to work out as my account fluctuates a lot).

I've also seen that if you have above 16k you're not entitled to anything. I was intending to save over this in the next year (by saving a large amoung of my grants and loan), but now I am absoutely lost on what to do. I need to re-pay the money I owe. I have this available to pay back straight away and obviously need to inform them that deductions need to be taken each month, but is this going to go against me?

There's things I've needed this year (a wardrobe as an example) and would have liked to go on a short break away with my DS. Had I of known about this deduction/cap I would have lived like a normal person and stopped being so stingey. I'm thinking next year I should just buy these things that I need and book a short break etc because I'm not going to be able to keep the savings anyway. Obviously I will still be getting deductions from the savings I do have but I suppose there is no point trying to deprive myself and let it accumilate if its just taking of more and more off what I would be entitled to? I've read up about deprivation of capital, but surely this wouldn't be seen as that as these are (IMO) very much normal expenses, I have just been choosing not to spend anything in an attempt to save.

Does anyone know what I can do?? I feel so stupid for not knowing regulations regarding savings, I've had my account way before I started thinking about saving and had absolutely no clue but its giving me extreme anxiety after finding out!!

How easy is it to get hold of the DWP right now is OP doesn’t have an online account?

I would consult citizens advice about how to deal with it. You can contact them by phone or web chat and stay anonymous if you want

How long have your savings been over £6k for whilst claiming UC?

There's an option on your journal to declare financial changes.
So you can start there.

@CoveredInBeeeees every UC claimant has an online account. It's part of UC.

What will happen once you call to report your savings is that your case will be referred to a decision maker.

You will need to provide all information about your income and savings from the start of your claim so that they can recalculate your claim right from the start according to the level of savings if any you had at that point. If you had less than £6000 at the start but built it up as the claim went along for example there would only be a deduction necessary for the amounts over £6000 for each month of the claim from that point onwards.

You can do some of the work yourself by going through your bank statements from the start date of your UC claim.
You might be surprised that you dont owe as much back as you feared.

You are allowed to spend some of your savings for normal family type outgoings and if you have spent large amounts on single items but can provide receipts and/or an explanation about why it was necessary the decision maker might discount that amount.

The thing they are looking for there is that you havent just run down your savings with the express aim of claiming benefits.

If you dont want to call you can put the information in your journal - they are being attended to much more quickly than before so you will have a reply in your journal or a callback from your case manager who will take it from there.

@Viviennemary I have already stated that it fluctuates, its just my current account so I get paid in a lump sum here and there then debits come out throughout the month which reduce it. Never been above 16k but I guess its been below 6k at times and 10k other times.

I said in my OP that I owe money so it would have to be above 6k from what I have read. i just need to know what to do without getting a criminal record for what seems to be my own stupidity.

I very much doubt you'll get a criminal record if you alert them to it without delay.

@YaWeeSkitter thank you. I get email statements so i'll try to work it out later. A lot of the time it was probably below or near 6k but it changes frequently so I have no clue.

@User9667 each assessment period where your bank account was over £6k at any point in that month you need to deduct £4.35 for every £250 over£6k. So if for eg during the period May 3rd 2020 - June 2nd 2020 ( change time your assessment dates) your highest balance was £8500 you need to pay back £43.50 . Next month it was £5500 so no repayment due, next month it was £7000 so £17.40 and so in. Add them all together put a note in your general saying your highest bank balance in every assessment period where it was above £6k.

*change to

And journal, sorry am talking to text.

@AldiAisleofCrap thats grear, thank you. Going to try and work it all out later.

@EatsShootsAndRuns

No absolutely was not aware of any deductions based on savings

Why would there not be deductions for savings on a means tested benefit?

Because there never was for tax credits and a lot of people have moved from tax credits to UC because of a simple change of circumstances.

If you move from tax credits to universal credit there is a grace period of a year where you can keep the savings.

That only applies to claimants who are moved from tax credits to universal credit by the government (managed migration).

If you have to make a new UC claim because of a change of circumstances then this is natural migration and there are no transitional protections.

Very very little managed migration has happened so far. There was a pilot in Harrogate last year or the year before but that's about it.

You say you have a student loan - presumably for your course & accommodation - how does that work if you owe the money - it's a loan, it's borrowed as an up front lump sum, but you still have the money because you've not yet spent it?

@Ariela I'm not quite sure what you mean by that but yes it gets paid in installments but because of my dependent I can't go out and splash it, so have been able to save. I do pay for accom out of it and tuition fees are paid directly.

Talk to a solicitor. CAB won't advise as they only deal with civil matters. Don't tell UC anything until you've talked to a solicitor, honestly. If you've made declarations then it doesn't matter whether you understood what you're declaring, unless you lack capacity or something. You need legal advice not to go blurting it all out to the DWP without a clear picture of the implications for you.

@LinemanForTheCounty this is scaring me a lot now. I was planning to call CAB but if they can't help I will try elsewhere. The thought of going to court etc is terrifying me. I completely understand they may not see it as my stupidity but I have all the money to pay straight back. I've also always informed them when they have wrongly overpaid me so I'm hoping they can see I'm not trying to commit fraud.

I'm sorry you are scared and I'm sorry we have a stupid system. It deters people from talking and catches the wrong people. On the tax side where you self declare problems you are treated more leniently and fines are waived or reduced.

I understand what you are saying, because people save in cash if they want to avoid benefits issues. Or they give it to someone else to hold. Not just leave it in their main account.

People make mistakes. I have no evidence if you did it accidentally or deliberately but it doesn't hurt me to take you at your word. Don't be defined by a bad system.

@Labyrinthloafer thank you, that's right. It's all in my accounts so I've got nothing to hide. It's horridble as I've always paid over payments back straight away and now all of this. I'm going to be applying for jobs soon so I definately cannot afford to have a criminal record or courts etc

Calm right down! Don't phone or write to UC while you are wound up, sit down today and work it out
First of all, how many months or years are we talking about? Were you moved from tc to uc or was it a new claim, and when?
Have you read the government guidelines on uc and student loans? Some parts of your loan are not assessed, for example
Then, uc assesses your student income over a year, knowing that it is paid in lump sums
So ... I really think you are probably fine if you are just talking about the amount over a year. Deep breath. If it's built up over more than a year, possibly there were declarations to be made,but you can sort it.

Now check that with cab or similar once you have all your statements etc

Fwiw I agree with @labyrinthloafer. I think the way that benefits are administered is unnecessarily hostile and the way that fraud is pursued means that people are punished for being disorganised, or for not reading every sentence of a ten page document, or not understanding the ramifications of what they're doing. Also agree that you could easily owe more in tax and face far less stringent consequences. And ofc if you had set out to fraud from the start you'd have things set up in a way that meant you wouldn't be worried about being caught.

But. This is where we are. I'm sorry you're scared but I do urge you to say nothing until you've talked to a solicitor. Before you do that, go through everything and work out what you owe, how long a period it covers. What type of account is the money in eg is it classed as a savings account. There's a broad threshold for prosecution - again, a solicitor will know what this is currently. You might fall outside it, and it might help if you've got the money to pay it back. If this is the case in a way it's even more important to get legal advice - you want to avoid that. How you communicate with them and the exact language you use, all the information you tell them, will all help in getting this resolved and a solicitor is best placed to guide you through this.

@TheLegendOfZelda It's just scaring me that I could be seen as a fraud, I'm just not that sort of person and it's making me feel awful.

As far as I know it was a new claim when I moved to a new place when DS was born, then I declared a change when moving to uni but I'm not sure whether that was a new claim or not.

I had a look last night and I can't get bank statements as I've forgotten my login details (sorting this today) but from what I can remember, it would be about 3 years as I was saving then for a deposit, move costs etc. Within the first year I wouldn't owe a lot as I hadn't saved a lot and had to spend a this on the move. But the past 2 years I think I'd owe around 2k because of the student loan and grants being paid in large hits.

My grants aren't assessed but my loan is and I get a reduced amount of UC because of this, but its just the fact that I've got above the 6k and have had for years which is terrifying me.

When you claim any benefits, you are specifically asked about savings, what did you answer? Did you not have them when you claimed?

In all honesty, I wouldn't worry, put it in writing, prepare to pay it back. You wont be taken to court for money you just pay back.

@ImFree2doasiwant I wouldn't of had any when I first claimed, it's my fault as I don't tend to read things properly. I think every year I've had an online declaration as well but again it's just said to notify them of any change of circumstances but hasn't said what these were. All I knew was that I notify them when my student loan comes through, send them these documents, and let them know when it stops. Because I applied years ago (call me naive) I had no idea this meant declaring savings.