Finally a victory for common sense! Will other sports follow?

[BilbyBlue]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2020/jul/19/transwomen-face-potential-womens-rugby-ban-over-safety-concerns?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

Finally it has been formally acknowledged that transwomen pose a danger to women in sports. I'm hoping the next logically conclusion is that all that biological advantage also makes it incredibly unfair. Huzzah for common sense!

The trouble is that this is so obvious to 99% of the population that it won't raise an eyebrow. No-one in the general population will notice, as most will think "of course male people can't play on female teams".

I'd say there will be ructions on twitter though

Figure skating has never entertained the idea to begin with

But, no, I'm very happy. I'm a rabid sports mum, so this is a topic that I have a lot of concern with.

Thank goodness. So pleased and relieved to read this.

Good news for women in sports. Women shouldn't have to budge up and shoulder the risk, the onus should be on male teams making trans women feel comfortable and accepted. That's workable, fair inclusion.

I am so relieved and pleased to see this. I hope all the other sports follow suit soon.

As World Rugby’s working group notes, players who are assigned male at birth and whose puberty and development is influenced by androgens/testosterone “are stronger by 25%-50%, are 30% more powerful, 40% heavier, and about 15% faster than players who are assigned female at birth (who do not experience an androgen-influenced development).”

Crucially those advantages are not reduced when a trans women takes testosterone-suppressing medication, as was previous thought - “with only small reductions in strength and no loss in bone mass or muscle volume or size after testosterone suppression”.

Let's hope other sports take note of these findings too.

Completely agree @NoToast.
Good news indeed!

Well obviously. Good for them.

I’m assuming therefor that trans men (who have been taking testosterone and have higher muscle mass) will continue to be welcome to play on women’s teams? And compete in women’s sports?

There are set limits on testosterone in womens sports, as on other performance-enhancing drugs,
so not if they are over the limit

However, there is no minimum testosterone in mens sports, so TW can still play

@FrenchFancie

I’m assuming therefor that trans men (who have been taking testosterone and have higher muscle mass) will continue to be welcome to play on women’s teams? And compete in women’s sports?

I used to play rugby, but for medical reasons beyond my control, I can't anymore. In fact I can't do any sort of contact sport at all, nor sports where I have to hold, catch or throw something using my hands. It's tough luck really. Sometimes medical needs get in the way of your sporting preferences. 🤷🏻‍♀️

@FrenchFancie

I’m assuming therefor that trans men (who have been taking testosterone and have higher muscle mass) will continue to be welcome to play on women’s teams? And compete in women’s sports?

Trans Men will have some enhanced strength and performance from additional male hormones so would play as men with the understanding that it is at their own increased risk against the advantages that natal men have against them.

A transman plays with men at increased risk to themselves.
A transwoman plays with women at increased risk to the other players.

Common sense prevails!

My daughter plays rugby at the higher level so I'm delighted with this ruling. She has some teammates who have to take drugs to keep their natural testosterone down to the acceptable level for women's sports.

This is really great to read. The very real injury risk to a woman or girl must trump the feelings of a biological male every time. There can be absolutely no compromise on this.

@FrenchFancie

I’m assuming therefor that trans men (who have been taking testosterone and have higher muscle mass) will continue to be welcome to play on women’s teams? And compete in women’s sports?

Did you not read the article?

The proposals also recommend that transgender men should be allowed to play against other men – provided they get a physical assessment and a therapeutic-exemption-use certificate and sign an statement accepting they understand the greater injury risks.

A draft version of the waiver for transgender men to sign, seen by the Guardian, says: “I acknowledge and accept the injury risks associated with transgender males playing contact rugby with males who are statistically likely to be stronger, faster and heavier than transgender males, as described in the World Rugby Transgender Guidelines which I have read and understand.”

I’m delighted with the ruling, even if I did have to grit my teeth at the fact they used ‘cis’, while talking about women, but “transgender men should be allowed to play against other men“. They still can’t help pandering to men’s feelings.

So am I right in understanding that trans men can play with the men, but trans women can’t play at all? Because if so, that would seem unfair. We are often told that sport is for all, yet excluding a group of people based on a factor they cannot control is ok? We wouldn’t be cheering excluding people who are black, or disabled, or gay.

I appreciate that sport must be kept safe for all, but I’m uncomfortable with the idea that a group of people are prohibited from playing in this way and feel things could have been done better.

So am I right in understanding that trans men can play with the men, but trans women can’t play at all?

No, from what I understand transwoman can play with the men

surely they can still play, but in a trans team. disabled people already do that.
(disclaimer i know nothing about sport)

great news!

French if I played rugby against a black, disabled or gay opponent these differences alone will not increase my risk of injury. Regardless of testosterone levels a male bodied opponent has so many advantages they will.

Safety has to be more important than inclusivity here. There is after all the other option of trans events just as we have Paralympic events.

And I'm not sure deciding as a trans competitor that you want to be in an event against the opposite sex is a factor you can't control.

@FrenchFancie

So am I right in understanding that trans men can play with the men, but trans women can’t play at all? Because if so, that would seem unfair. We are often told that sport is for all, yet excluding a group of people based on a factor they cannot control is ok? We wouldn’t be cheering excluding people who are black, or disabled, or gay.

I appreciate that sport must be kept safe for all, but I’m uncomfortable with the idea that a group of people are prohibited from playing in this way and feel things could have been done better.

Of course male bodied people who identify as trans can play rugby, with other males. Even after reading the article, your main concern is for the male bodied people? How do you suggest ‘things could have been done better’? I’m happy that male bodied people can no longer ‘fold a player (Woman) like a deckchair’ or break a woman’s leg.

We wouldn’t be cheering excluding people who are black, or disabled, or gay.

Actually we would, if they were black, or disabled, or gay male bodied people who identify as trans trans and want to play against women.

That’s the point!

What is your solution then @FrenchFancie?

@FrenchFancie women can’t control being born women - but it’s fair for them to be put at risk playing with a person born male, who might significantly increase their risk of injury? Why aren’t you seeking to protect women first and foremost?

Transwomen need to find an alternative way of playing rugby if they wish to.