If you had the option, would you wait till your DC was 3 before sending to nursery?

[LadyPrigsbottom]

Excuse the long title!

My DC is 2 and a half. We also have a 5yo DC1, who is at school. We planned for DC2 to start nursery in September, when I was going to start looking for work.

A few things have made me have second thoughts:

1. the nursery we were planning to use is also the one DC1 attended. Although it was good and DC1 loved it there, I am not totally in love with it for a few, I think quite rational, reasons. I have been looking at other nurseries in the area, but none are quite right.

2. I struggled to find a job before CV had ruined everything. I have a degree from a good university and bits and pieces of experience, (mainly admin). But I was struggling before I felt pregnant with dc2 and that was when the job market was less competitive.

3. if we wait till DC2 is 3, we could potentially get a place at the preschool attached to DC1's primary. I think this would be nice for them both and DC2 would be able to settle there and hopefully stay there for primary*.

But then, I've been dying to get back to work and you never know if I might get lucky and I have no idea what the hell DC2 and I will be able to do together in September if not nursery, as all the groups, soft plays, swimming pools etc are off limits and even if not totally off limits by then, like everything else, let's face it, it's going to be weird isn't it? Or is it just me who thinks that? Aaaanyway, on the other hand, it's only a few (seven to be precise) months.

One other consideration is that if we book in to nursery and then there's another lockdown or whatever, we'll be out a lot of money.

*We have no reason to think DC2 wouldn't get a place at the primary. However, as they are an academy with slightly different criteria, so there is a chance DC2 wouldn't go to primary there, but we certainly hope so!

@Smashtastic thank you! That is lovely of you to suggest and also quite reassuring that the only market isn't so bad.

Sadly, I am not near Leicester. Reasonably close to London.

OP I’m in a similar situation. I’m a teacher and my plan was to put 2yo DC in nursery last Easter and start doing supply teaching to ease back into it, with the aim of getting a full time job to start in September. Needless to say my plan couldn’t happen. I’m now thinking I won’t go back to teaching at all because it’s too dangerous and complicated due to coronavirus. So I need a new career. I’m reluctant to send DC to nursery when the likelihood of me finding a job under the current circumstances is remote. It seems an unnecessary risk and expense if I’m just sitting on my arse at home filling out job applications.

One other consideration is that if we book in to nursery and then there's another lockdown or whatever, we'll be out a lot of money
This is a big issue for me too. Once I sign on the dotted line I’ll have to pay, even if the nursery is closed or I can’t get a job. Imo it’s too much of a risk financially. I’m just going to give up on the possibility of going back to work right now and wait until next Easter. DC will be 3 and nursery will be free so I won’t be out of pocket if they close. And maybe the coronavirus situation and the job market will have improved by then too. It’s not what I wanted, but none of this global situation is what I wanted either.

My dd will be starting nursery in September, when she'll be 2.3y. I think it will be a good age for her, as she's really missed her toddler groups and classes, and is keen for the social interaction and stimulation.

I think it depends a lot on the individual child though. How has your DC2 coped in lockdown? A lot of our local toddler classes plan to start operating again in September, so if you continue to be a sahm, I think there will be more activities to go to. But yes, they will be quieter, and they'll have to make a lot of changes. Personally I wouldn't feel too weird about attending them though, kids just adapt.

Will the preschool offer enough hours to provide useful childcare for you to return to work? I think our local ones only offer school hours, and often there's a long period of settling with shorter days. My DSis found that wraparound care wasn't a good option to cover after school hours, as it was full of older dc and her 3yo dd would have been overwhelmed and tired. Whereas at a day nursery, they're more set up for babies/toddlers, with napping areas and you don't have to change between different settings.

There may be more opportunities for apprenticeships in the next few months, as the govt has just announced a bonus for business taking them on, even for over 25s.

@Davodia, yes, that is very similar to me, except I'm not a teacher!

And yes, I agree, it just feels stupid to send dc2 to nursery at a not insignificant expense, for me to find the job market so competitive. Especially seeing as I've been a SAHM for thr past 5, nearly 6, years!

While, on the one hand, I think, well then, I'd better get a job ASAP, on the other, I think it is going to be a long slog getting into a new career or even back into my old one, so what difference does seven months make, except that we'd be paying £££ for nursery - a nursery I'm not even that happy with!

If I wait, yes, that's at least another seven months of "SAHM" on my CV, (I won't actually list as a job btw). But it's also a considerable financial saving.

That's interesting re apprenticeships @tindigo. I would definitely look at an apprenticeship, depending on prospects after completion.

The school offers school hours, plus wraparound care. They do move from preschool into after school club at the end of the school day. DC1 would also be there, so hopefully DC2 would be ok, but that is a really good point, thank you.

Oh and DC2 is coping ok with lockdown. We both have till about this week really, when I definitely feel as if I've hit a wall. We are both a bit bored with going for walks I think.

If I had a guaranteed job to go to I’d sign up for nursery in September. But what are the odds of me actually getting a job in these times of high unemployment, business closures and economic collapse? And keeping that job (still getting paid) in the event of another lockdown? I’ve been out of work for a while so it’s the worst time for me to enter a competitive job market. I think I’ll just end up sitting here unemployed while I fork out for nursery that I can’t afford and don’t really need. It’s disappointing but that’s the situation.

Same @Davodia. And then, if by some miracle, I do find a job, we, as a family, will only just break even, after childcare costs, if we don't actually end up losing money and I don't even really like the nursery... I mean, the more I write on here, the more I think waiting is by far the more sensible choice?

Normally I'd say send at 2 but with Covid and not knowing if there will be a second spike and lockdown in autumn I would wait. I would not risk nursery fees if a second lockdown and baby could not even go.

Oh sorry, just saw the "what would happen if your marriage fell apart" line... well, if that happens between now and next spring, then I am totally fucked. Obviously, I hope that doesn't happen!
But, I know it does.

But, if I moved heaven and earth, sent DC to a nursery I wasn't sure about, did whatever it took to get a job etc, my salary would be approximately a quarter of DH's, for full time work. A cliche it is, but there you have it! But you know, thanks for pointing it out and all, but it is something you cannot fail to consider if you are a SAHM on mumsnet. It is shouted at you at every turn.

The thing is, that aside from maybe HCPs, there are no guarantees at the moment. Look what's happening to working women now too; many are now juggling childcare and working from home. I would put money on the vast majority of extra domestic duties being taken on at the moment falling on women, even the working ones.

It's the fucking patriarchy and I hate it as much as most people. But I am not likely to be able to escape the patriarchal system, nor can I escape the fact that most women with children will earn less than their male counterparts, nor can I escape the fact that if my marriage did fall apart, there is a good chance I'd be left doing even more childcare and, if, theoretically, my DH turned evil and refused to pay maintenance, he could probably avoid it fairly easily, because that is the way the system is set up. I certainly cannot escape all of this by getting a wee admin job three days a week seven months earlier....oh yes, they probably won't hire me though, as I've been out of work for years.

Sorry, wee rant for you there .

Anywho, I wonder if the plan might be to train in free time. I might get a mother's help (do they still have those?) a few hours per week and I will try and do some studying from home.

OP I was asking about your situation if you found yourself as a single parent more thinking about the long term and as part of the argument for getting yourself a career and ensuring financial independence in the future. Obviously that wouldn’t come overnight, I get that. It just scares me, to be honest, the number of women on these boards who have given up so much and would be fucked without their husband and his job. I couldn’t sleep at night as a SAHM with no independent earning potential if I’m honest, and I say that as someone with a husband that I adore and am as confident as I could ever be in our marriage.

And don’t assume that working mums are also all doing the domestic duties too. Some are I’m sure, not all of us though. DH and I both work a four day week (currently from home) and split domestic tasks and childcare down the middle. The patriarchy can only be blamed for so much, we all have control of our own lives too. If it matters to you as much as you say it does to develop a career that will take some hard choices in the short term. As a PP said, you should sketch out what you want your life to look like in a few years time and take steps towards making that happen because those five year, ten year horizons...they come round so much faster than you’d think!

You couldn't sleep at night as a SAHM . What a lovely thing to say to someone who is a SAHM NOT BY CHOICE!

Honestly, I wouldn't feel too smug. These are uncertain times for everyone.

I was very careful to say that I think the "vast majority", not "all" of extra domestic duties are probably falling on women. I don't think that's true.

You are in a privileged position, as, for one reason or another, you do not find yourself in the same position as I do, so it is easy for those in a position of privilege to say, "you can't blame the patriarchy for everything".

You say "those years come around quicker than you think". Do I take it from that, that you come a from a different generation to me (millennial, technically)? When I graduated from a decent university, it was 2008 and it was very difficult to find a job. I did, but it was basic admin. I managed to build a reasonable career, which I was happy with and then the industry I worked in took an enormous nosedive and they closed my office while I was on maternity leave.

How fucking dare you smugly come on here and lecture me from your position of privilege? Honestly, how fucking dare you?

Tbh I tend to think whether a working mum or a SAHM it’s because you don’t have a choice. You either have to work or can’t afford to- either way MN only really has an issue with non married SAHM being left vulnerable.
Sounds like you aren’t keen to send him yet OP so hold off until the pre school opens! Everyone’s different

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Tbh I tend to think whether a working mum or a SAHM it’s because you don’t have a choice. You either have to work or can’t afford to- either way MN only really has an issue with non married SAHM being left vulnerable. Sounds like you aren’t keen to send him yet OP so hold off until the pre school opens! Everyone’s different

Indeed, it works both ways. I would rather be destitute on the street than be the sort of person who said "I couldn't sleep at night if I had to go to work and leave my kids in nursery full time".

When people go on about how, "I made the right choices and why didn't you?", to someone less privileged than they are, (because they, apparently HAVE the choice), it is incredibly smug and lacking in empathy.

We sent both dds to a pre school type nursery for 2 morning sessions for the 6-12 months before they started at school nursery in the funded places. I think this really helped them both, as they did struggle with the separation, which seemed to occasionally come back to haunt them at the first nursery, but once they started the school nursery, it was a fresh start and separation was a distant memory iyswim. I'd be worried that if school was the first place to separate from the parent, they might remember that feeling and associate it with school. This is a just a vague feeling though really, you might not feel it a factor if your eldest settled at school with no issue.

If it matters to you as much as you say it does to develop a career that will take some hard choices in the short term.

Ugh this is like classic privileged wanker speak, sorry. If it mattered that much, you would just do what I was lucky enough to have the opportunity to do. Seriously that can massively fuck the fuck off and then fuck off some more.

Wow OP that was an awful lot of rage thrown at me there I think you’ve massively misconstrued the tone of my post, for what it’s worth. I’m going to leave this thread now because I’m not really up for being the target of your bizarre anger. But, I’d like to note that I also graduated in 2008 into exactly the same economic climate as you did. I’m not quite sure what ‘privilege’ you perceive me to have that has apparently given me my own situation on a plate. You know precisely zero about me so I can only presume you have a pretty stonking great chip on your shoulder and are one of these people for whom nothing is ever their own responsibility. It’s shit to be made redundant but that doesn’t explain the last six years of your life does it?

I have nothing whatsoever against SAHPs, to each their own and I’m really not that invested in other peoples lives, but I have been on these boards for long enough to be extremely wary (understatement) of ever losing financial independence, hence my remark about how much it would worry me. Also, hence me trying to give some comments on how balancing work and parenthood isn’t always what you seemed to think it would be for women, I.e. carrying everything. You said you want to get yourself a career so I was trying to be reassuring that it is indeed possible to carve that out in an equitable fashion with a partner. For some reason you have interpreted that as me attacking your life and I’m not really here for your irrational aggression.

In any case, I wish you well.

My first went at 1 because I went back to work and it was what it was but I don’t really think it was in his best interests.
My second will be going at 3 although more like 3 and a half as she’ll be going from the September after she is 3.

You were trying to be reassuring???? Jesus fucking christ. Well, you have had the opposite effect.

How dare you @Rainycloudyday? And then flounce off the thread after dropping your smug stinkbomb. Bizarre rage??? Nope! Perfectly valid disgust and disappointment that someone would get their jollies coming on to a perfectly nice thread about nurseries for a small toddler and smugly smug on about how much better their own life choices have been....well I don't know you from Adam, but i would be astonished if some of your career success was not to do with sheer, dumb luck and circumstances.

I hate attitudes like yours and I know EXACTLY what you came on here to do. So toodlepip and don't let the door hit you on the way out love.

Oh and @Rainycloudyday, calling me irrational and accusing me of bizarre rage? You are gaslighting. HTH.

Um, not sure how to follow that.

But on the practical issue, can you find a way to carve out CV writing and job hunting time without nursery? Grandparents? Babysitter? A deal with your partner to get three uninterrupted hours at the weekend? Because that might be a way to square the circle - start applying for jobs and getting (hopefully) interview practice, and then make a decision on nursery if / when you have a job offer.

And you were trying to reassure me that I too could have a fabulous life like yours? Um...I was not asking for smug recommendations from people and a critique of the choices I have made or circumstances in which I find myself. I certainly didn't need your delightful reminder of "what would happen if your marriage ended?". Isn't it funny how this helpful reminder, only comes up on here when women who are in a different position say it?

When I explained that yes, that is the situation in which I find myself and that does suck. It wouldn't have been my choice, but this is where I find myself, because my earning potential is so much less than my husband's, you carried on "trying to reassure me" by saying you couldn't sleep at night if you were a SAHM.

Well, I hope you got your wee kick out of this @Rainycloudyday.

@ThroughThoroughThoughTough

Um, not sure how to follow that.

But on the practical issue, can you find a way to carve out CV writing and job hunting time without nursery? Grandparents? Babysitter? A deal with your partner to get three uninterrupted hours at the weekend? Because that might be a way to square the circle - start applying for jobs and getting (hopefully) interview practice, and then make a decision on nursery if / when you have a job offer.

We have absolutely no family help.

As I said in one of my previous posts, I am thinking of getting a babysitter a few hours a week to work on training etc. I think this is a good middle ground.

Sorry, everyone other than rainy, for that. I am usually a really good judge of people who use these tactics and I don't think I was wrong to take umbridge. I think rainy was surprised because people tend not to call this BS out on here.

A few things, in no particular order:

How happy are you about the prospect of 7 months more as a SAHM? Are you coping ok with that? (I am partly a SAHM and I am ready to hand my nearly three year old to the first person I see by about 11am most days.)

I’ve personally found settling at nursery quite a painful process at this age, so doing it twice wouldn’t appeal. That might mean waiting, or keeping them in a nursery you don’t particularly like?

What is it about the nurseries that doesn’t work for you/makes you feel uneasy?

I’ve personally found settling at nursery quite a painful process at this age, so doing it twice wouldn’t appeal. That might mean waiting, or keeping them in a nursery you don’t particularly like

Yes, this is a concern.

I honestly just get a bad feeling from the nursery. There is an outdoor area which is very near the public footpath with just a low fence. I think that the staff, although mainly lovely, sometimes don't have their eyes on the dcs all the time. They have had a complaint recently, although I don't know the specifics. They were handed a welfare notice and told to take action. That alone might not be so bad, as at least they are taking action, but I don't actually know what a welfare notice is or how serious that is... I think between that and the off feeling I get from it, means I'm not fully comfortable with it. Although, having said that, it isn't anything concrete, so I'm not absolutely set against it.