Terrible CVs

[PymChurchBeach]

Disclaimer: I know times are hard and shitty right now and a lot of people are desperate for work so probably chucking out CVs left right and centre at anything and everything.

BUT. I have worked in HR for nearly a decade now and it has always been the same. The general standard of CVs is bloody awful. I'm recruiting for a mid level role at the moment and I have seen the following:

• people using little hearts and stars instead of bullet points
• massive glamour model style photographs taking up the whole first page of a CV
• people's dates of birth and marital statuses written up at the top. Just no!!!
• wacky, colourful borders and fonts. Comic sans. Enough said.

Also - this last one is possibly controversial but when women have had a break to look after DC, there really is no need to list all the skills gained as a SAHM - e.g. "excellent time management skills etc". You can just say you had time out to raise children. That's all you need to say. I'm not going to think any the worse of you for it.

I am desperate to implement application forms rather than have CVs and cover letters but my CEO is old fashioned and will not have it.

Jobcentre tells is to list the useful skills we gained while being Mums. So nice to see that is a waste of time.

I've sat in on many of those courses and heard advisors tell customers all sorts of things about CVs. All horribly outdated (when did these people last apply for a job themselves?) and should probably be ignored.

I've read this thread and it's a bit bewildering. I'm 50 plus and need a cv but I can see from above I'd make a lot of mistakes writing one, not because I'm stupid, but because I'm out of touch with having to do a cv. In my day you went to the job centre, picked up a card, took it to a desk and the staff arranged you an interview. Cvs weren't applicable. And to be honest, some of the experts here in recruitment are coming across as sneery and pompous. Yes, you're an expert as you've been trained, Most of us haven't been trained!!!

@Roomba

Jobcentre tells is to list the useful skills we gained while being Mums. So nice to see that is a waste of time.

I've sat in on many of those courses and heard advisors tell customers all sorts of things about CVs. All horribly outdated (when did these people last apply for a job themselves?) and should probably be ignored.

And how would we know its to be ignored? Again, someone in the industry presuming everyone has her knowledge.

@roomba

I’ve worked with the job centre as an employer. They were dreadful. The applicants they sent were unsuitable for the jobs we were recruiting. It was a short lived experiment. I’m not sure what purpose these job coaches actually serve, as their advice doesn’t seem to actually help people get jobs.

I've been to the job coaches too. Through my local council, to help job seekers get back into work. I thought I'd found the answer to my prayers even getting a meeting with them, as they are few and far between here.
The first one was in my local library, I sat at the pc, she sat at the next pc. She told me about a website to look through, I'm not very pc literate, when I looked over for help she was scrolling through Facebook and barely lifted her head to me. After 1 and 1/2 hours I gave up. Gutted.
Next time again I went to another local sports centre, the person I was to meet didn't show up, she'd been off sick and no one thought to inform me.
Third attempt, I arranged to meet someone at my local centre again. Thought it was cv help, job search help as advertised... Turns out it was a varied group of out of work women being given confidence building exercises which involved colouring in.

How I got my present job I'll never know.

And how would we know its to be ignored?

I think this is a very valid point. When you are given advice by someone who is meant to be an expert, how are you meant to know that they aren't actually an expert.

I got torn apart on a thread once for mentioning that over the years I had repeatedly sought careers advice and followed it, and it hadn't helped at all. When I explained what I had been advised to do, and that I had followed the advice, I was told I was lazy and not willing to take responsibility, and that I should have known that it was useless advice.

But how could I possibly have known? I was struggling for money and, having had terrible advice from free careers services had saved every penny to pay for careers advice from someone who was supposedly an expert in the field. It's not lazy to think that when someone works in, and has qualifications in, a particular field, they should actually know what they're doing. And if you have nothing to compare it to, how would you ever know? Turned out that I spent my hard earned cash for someone to write me an email asking if I had thought of applying for jobs in the field I would like to work in, and offering to work for free for a friend who owned a business. Didn't seem to cross their mind that actually I didn't know anyone who owned a business...

The Internet is choc full of advice.
Pages and pages of it.
How are we meant to know what's the good advice and what's rubbish?
This thread is a perfect example.
How am I meant to know if you are all telling the truth, if your advice is correct?

It's easy to spot a liar if you know the subject inside out, not so easy if you are new to it all.

@TazSyd I work in a jobcenter in Denmark. Im finding this insight into British jobcenters fascinating. I do emphasise to my clients that when I say they need to change something on their jobnet cv then its obligatory, when I give feedback on their personal CV its my opinion and they are free to ignore it.

Sahms arent really a thing unless the child has been quite ill, and then there is a special benefit for that. So I tell them to explain the gap, and they put the name of the benefit.

I sometimes get frustrated with local employers. Twice a local authority has aaked for social workers with experience in children and families in an authority position. They just dont seem to understand that experienced sws are all in work and the majority at the jc are newly qualified. SO frustrating! Though I can also understand your point about totally unsuitable candidates. That sounds equally frustrating.

Oh and re trusting the people giving advice. I am one of 3 teams: public sector, trades and unqualified, service and administration. We have worked within our respective branches in order to avoid giving incorrect or out of date advice.

The job centre advisers are next to useless. I'm not being horrible but a lot of them aren't very well educated. Careers advice isn't generally very well paid and doesn't attract people who could actually be helpful.

@ssd And how would we know its to be ignored? Again, someone in the industry presuming everyone has her knowledge

You don't need inside knowledge. Overall all the advice on this thread comes down to one simple rule of thumb on a CV:

Show how well you match the requirements of the job you are applying for

If you bear this in mind all the way through the CV then it becomes much clearer what to include and what to miss out. So, for example if you are going for a job in a cake shop, your date of birth, names of your grandchildren and the modules in your psychology degree will not be useful information to the employer; whereas your Food Hygiene Certificate and the fact you got to the third round of bake off will make you stand out.

If you apply next week to be a children's librarian then you should tweak your CV because suddenly your degree module on language development is very relevant; your experience caring for your autistic grandson might give you an edge but your baking talents will just take up space and detract from the focus on the relevant info.

In the end, the job of the CV is to make you be one of the top 5 applicants whose CV closest match that job's requirements. Usually the top 5 or so get an interview. If your CV is amazing but full of irrelevant info then you are just making it less likely that the employer will notice yours in the pile of 100 they are sifting.

It's true that finding the right advice is really difficult. I think if you are, for example, planning to hire someone as a career coach or whatever, it makes sense to do research. Ideally get personal recommendations. At the very least, take a look at their website and social media - do they get positive comments from other people, do they have a compelling career path themselves (I know a lovely woman who has set herself up as a career coach. But she's had zero career herself and I struggle to see how she can offer any real advice).

Do internet searches looking for hints and tops and work those in.

But yes, it is a problem. I helped an MNer a few months ago who had loads of experience but was struggling to get a job. We just rejigged her CV around and she then got an interview and, shortly after, a job. But she simply hadn't had the knowledge before and short of coming on here, perhaps never would have got it. So I don't know the answer except to keep posting, asking, searching?

@StrictlyAFemaleFemale

I’ve heard British job centres being referred to as sanctions centres before. I don’t know anyone who would voluntarily take any careers advice from a British job centre, they aren’t really set up to do that, just administer benefits and monitor claimants behaviour.

@ssd

Your best bet is to register with a couple of agencies that recruit a lot in your line of work. They’ll rejig your CV and give you interview advice.

Generally speaking you want to take careers advice from people who are actually responsible for hiring employees. I have worked with hundreds of recruitment agents and "careers advisors" over the years and I would only trust the advice of a very select few.

In response to "how do you know which is the correct advice to follow" - if you're applying to multiple jobs and not getting anywhere, somewhere along the line you have followed the wrong advice.

I wouldn't rely on a recruitment agency to be honest, some of them are great and some are terrible. I once had a recruitment consultant tell me that there was no such thing as a permanent part-time job, that part-time was just another word for temporary. I could have cried that he was getting paid a fortune when he was clearly so utterly clueless.

But a good agency is worth their weight in gold.

But in all honesty the thing that really turned my job hunting around was getting advice from a friend who worked in marketing. She just took my experience and showed me how to sell myself like a product. And it worked because not only did I suddenly start getting interviews and job offers, but they were with employers where the fit was good, where I was happy and they were happy with me. Not just any old job because I was desperate and was grateful that anyone wanted me.

I’ve had some great advice from agencies. As long as you find a good one. If they sound like a spiv then ignore them. If they’ve worked in their sector for a number of years and have several years tenure at each employer, then it’s likely they’ll know what they are doing. Check them out on LinkedIn.

And ssd

How am I meant to know if you are all telling the truth, if your advice is correct?

It doesn't really matter. There's no right and wrong 'truth' in this but the proof is in the pudding.

If your CV gets the phones ringing and you get interviews then it's working for you and it's a 'good' CV. If you've sent it off 100 times and hear nothing then there's something wrong and it's worth considering some of the advice here. Try the tweaks and see if that gets more replies. It's the only way you have of knowing if the advice is correct.

One of my pet quibbles is CVs that have over-flowery gobbledygook business language (obviously written by a CV writer with a thesaurus who thinks the more long words the better) and not the actual CV owner for jobs where that sort of language is just not used. As soon as the candidate opens their mouth it is clear they wouldn't speak like that. I've asked some people who don't even know what the wording on their own CVs means, let alone whether it applies to them.

Would too suggest looking at LinkedIn for people in the field you are applying to and see what information they give?

I teach in international schools and marital status, age and number of children is relevant. In some countries a married woman can not sponsor a husband for a visa, some countries will not give visas over a certain age and schools will only provide education for up to 2 children normally. I am a single parent and I know some schools will reject me for that, so I make it clear on my CV. This advice is very specific to my sector though.

This advice is very specific to my sector though. Rather like an unmarried mother with kids applying to be a catholic priest?

I'm going to say it again; why doesn't each employer upload a CV template to their website?

why doesn't each employer upload a CV template to their website?
Possibly because many jobs require an ability to produce succinct, accurate and persuasive documents?

@Thelnebriati

I'm going to say it again; why doesn't each employer upload a CV template to their website?

They basically do. It's an application form.

Many employers will only accept their own application form, not CVs, because they can clearly compare the info they want between candidates.

I'm going to say it again; why doesn't each employer upload a CV template to their website?

This would only go so far. I am deeply sympathetic to people who don' know what to put in CVs. BUT.... I think it's also true that many job specs etc WILL specify that they want demonstrated proof of experience in x or that they'd like a cover letter in which the candidate outlines what he/she can offer the organisation and this is just ignored. Or page length/word counts - Recruiter: "Please answer the following questions in 150 words or less" Candidate: "3 page essay".

So the petty things like whether or not to include hobbies might be less obvious and harder to assess, but then, those of us who have experience in this space have pointed out that we wouldn't ditch a cv because there's a line on hobbies. They're minor points.

But it shouldn't take specialist expertise to understand that if you're applying for a junior accountant role, your ability to bake cakes is largely irrelevant.

I've only recruited into roles where a degree is required, so I would expect a reasonably professional CV from anyone but have been astonished at what people include. When you have a pile of CVs to go through and a major part of the role you are recruiting for involves creating professional documents then first impressions count. If people can't be bothered to research how to provide a proper CV I have no confidence in their abilities or commitment to do research and prepare documents in the job itself.