New to Twitter, feel sick RE 'Karen' meme

[AllWashedOut]

How have we sunk so low? Since when did women start bashing other women so vilely?

I started on Twitter for career reasons (what a joke) and the people in the industry are full-on woke. I want to cry. Karen as a cruel stereotype?

White person (typified as a woman called Karen), who demands priority at all times, a “can I speak to your supervisor” person. Would claim to be being victimised. We’d once have called such a person “a bit of of a twat” but in these BLM days more an entitled whinger on FB

Karen (and indeed Gammon) are very handy and useful shorthand to describe very particular character traits.

If someone calls you a Karen and you're not in Starbucks refusing to wear a mask and asking for the manager - then chances are you're not a Karen. Roll your eyes and tell them to look up "know your meme".

Or something.

It's not even about women "daring to complain" it is specifically white, middle-class, middle-aged (often) women trying to land someone (often black usually working class) in the shit for not kowtowing to her. If the shoe fits, and all that.

Twitter is an absolute pile of shite in places, but it is absolutely, completely and utterly brilliant in others. You might want to start following, for example, the Daily Capybara tweets. Or Unsolicited Dik-diks. Or Dick King-Smith (usually wholesome amusing animal things)

@AllWashedOut

I had heard about the Karen meme but largely ignored it, thinking it was simply a rehash of the old Essex crap. I find 'white women claiming to be victimised' an outrageous excuse to ignore what women say.

In my life, I never meet people who say these things. I don't hear outrageous misogynistic tropes or slurs. Ever. I mix with a range of people, mainly working class, some middle.

You’re right. Appalling misogyny dressed up as anti-racism. What happened to all oppressed groups banding together against bigotry?

I caught a snippet earlier of a BLM person (the organisation, not the slogan) spewing anti-semitism in the cause of anti-racism. I was too depressed to read it all.

If this is “progressive” I can live without it.

You lost me when you said "woke".

Twitter is a cesspit I agree

@GoldenOmber

Have you never worked in retail or customer services? Most people working in those sectors have stories about their encounters with Karens.

I have, and tbh men were just as likely to be angry and unreasonable as women. It’s very weird there isn’t a ‘Karen’ equivalent name for men, I wonder what the reason could possibly be?

I thought it was Kevin

I have, and tbh men were just as likely to be angry and unreasonable as women. It’s very weird there isn’t a ‘Karen’ equivalent name for men, I wonder what the reason could possibly be?

It’s Ken. I’ve seen that used a lot.

Pretty much every single nationality or group of people have names used as stereotypes. In the uk we have had for example (Chantelle, or shardonay etc for stereotypically chavvy. In the USA they have de'vonte shaniqua to talk about a certain stereotype of people. You have names for (as offensive as they may be they're still there) working class, middle class, ethnicities pretty much everything. The fact that the Karen meme has caused so much uproar is pretty much just feeding the meme of 'Karen's' complaining and being unreasonable when I have never heard barely any mention of the other name stereotypes

If it's for career reasons I'd give Twitter the widest berth. It's a cesspool of Twitter Police checking you wrong-thinking.

anotherposter I've heard 'Steve' used all for the male equivalent. I thought Karen was specifically about being horrible to customer service workers and being racist (such as that woman who claimed the black man who told her to put her dog on a leash in the park was "threatening" her).

I don't live in a world of tropes and putdowns -

You do. You just wish you didn’t.

@alotinashortspaceoftime

Pretty much every single nationality or group of people have names used as stereotypes. In the uk we have had for example (Chantelle, or shardonay etc for stereotypically chavvy. In the USA they have de'vonte shaniqua to talk about a certain stereotype of people. You have names for (as offensive as they may be they're still there) working class, middle class, ethnicities pretty much everything. The fact that the Karen meme has caused so much uproar is pretty much just feeding the meme of 'Karen's' complaining and being unreasonable when I have never heard barely any mention of the other name stereotypes

I think the reason that “the Karen meme has caused such uproar” is that it seems very incongruous for a pro-equality movement to be using vicious stereotypes based n demographics.

@dayslikethese1

anotherposter I've heard 'Steve' used all for the male equivalent. I thought Karen was specifically about being horrible to customer service workers and being racist (such as that woman who claimed the black man who told her to put her dog on a leash in the park was "threatening" her).

You haven’t heard “Steve” anything like as often as you’ve heard “Karen”.

I thought it was Kevin
It’s Ken. I’ve seen that used a lot.

Mmm. Quick Twitter search for ‘shut up Ken’ and ‘shut up Kevin’ produces men actually called Ken/Kevin being told to shut up or telling others to shut up. Searching for ‘shut up Karen’ looks quite different.

Im on Twitter. If someone i follow posts something I find offensive then I unfollow.

@GoldenOmber

I thought it was Kevin It’s Ken. I’ve seen that used a lot.

Mmm. Quick Twitter search for ‘shut up Ken’ and ‘shut up Kevin’ produces men actually called Ken/Kevin being told to shut up or telling others to shut up. Searching for ‘shut up Karen’ looks quite different.

If you search Ken and Karen it draws many results

Why is it fine to try and shut people up by stereotyping them and saying they are like an internet meme it comes across so immature and reductionist. And having a specific meme for 'entitled women' does seem particularly sexist. The equivalent men would probably be called arrogant/ assertive. If someone is being ridiculous or racist just say that surely, why bring ageism and misogyny into it by using a female name popular a few decades ago to categorise those behaviours.

No ‘Kevin’ doesn’t have the same traction nor the connotations. ‘Kevin’ isn’t a hate figure. I saw on another thread in the Feminist section that a pub in Glasgow has a sign out side saying ‘No Karens’. I am sure they think it is a joke but this is definitely a backward step. If women aren’t worried about ‘women’ being branded as a problem then they should be.
Even when being used to call out racism, white women may participate in structural racism but they were not the architects of it but then we do live in a patriarchal society so of course, women make easy scapegoats.

OP I agree its vile. Using a well-known given name to identify someone in a derogatory way is just lazy stereoptyping. See also Kevin, Wayne, Bruce and Sheila, Sharon and Tracey. Or, for that matter, Torquil. In general it feels more mature to avoid something which is bound to cause unintended offence.

If you search Ken and Karen it draws many results

And yet, one of those names is being used in a broader sense to tell people to shut up outside of the context of customer service, and one is not. Ditto ‘Kevin’ and ‘Steve’.

@Mummydaydreams

Why is it fine to try and shut people up by stereotyping them and saying they are like an internet meme it comes across so immature and reductionist. And having a specific meme for 'entitled women' does seem particularly sexist. The equivalent men would probably be called arrogant/ assertive. If someone is being ridiculous or racist just say that surely, why bring ageism and misogyny into it by using a female name popular a few decades ago to categorise those behaviours.

Totally agree!

As I've said on another thread, it's an American cultural descriptor that doesn't translate particularly well to the UK. It's a descriptor that's become acute in the waves of racial tension the States has been experiencing for the past six weeks (though it was used before this).

And there is a male equivalent, most often Chad (sometimes Brad).

I'm sorry you feel Twitter isn't right for you. You can always unfollow posts you don't like. Hell, you can have a twitter feed that is entirely about pugs or archaeology or vintage cars or fountain pens or baby goats.

I understand the Karen meme and it specifically related to a pompous woman usually being racist. Which in the grand scheme of things not a huge deal. Problem is, its spawned into a derogatory remark aimed at any women who dared offer her opinion. In effect used to shut down women and no different from bitch/cunt/dog etc. But misogyny seems as acceptable now as it ever did, whether it be from men or women.

If you don't like Karen and gammon what are doing on MN?

People here use names as insults frequently- Tarquin, Jocasta, Wendy, Susan, Kevin, Chardonnay/Jayden/Brayden (and a list of other children's names especially ones starting with K with a few exceptions like Kate and Kit)

Gammon is not equivalent. (Unless I've missed a baby-name craze).

@Renaggie

No ‘Kevin’ doesn’t have the same traction nor the connotations. ‘Kevin’ isn’t a hate figure. I saw on another thread in the Feminist section that a pub in Glasgow has a sign out side saying ‘No Karens’. I am sure they think it is a joke but this is definitely a backward step. If women aren’t worried about ‘women’ being branded as a problem then they should be. Even when being used to call out racism, white women may participate in structural racism but they were not the architects of it but then we do live in a patriarchal society so of course, women make easy scapegoats.

Absolutely! Thank you