New to Twitter, feel sick RE 'Karen' meme

[AllWashedOut]

How have we sunk so low? Since when did women start bashing other women so vilely?

I started on Twitter for career reasons (what a joke) and the people in the industry are full-on woke. I want to cry. Karen as a cruel stereotype?

White person (typified as a woman called Karen), who demands priority at all times, a “can I speak to your supervisor” person. Would claim to be being victimised. We’d once have called such a person “a bit of of a twat” but in these BLM days more an entitled whinger on FB

I don’t know anyone who uses the term ‘Karen’ in real life, it’s so try hard.

Is this an ironic thread where you act like a Karen whilst moaning about Karen’s?

Or is it unintentional?

OP standing up for yourself is not 'being a Karen' - look at the actual videos that pertain to this. Normally it is white women in America who have been exceptionally horrible to black or brown people then turn it around on them and sob and cry and threaten to call the police who are called 'Karens'. Do you identify with those people?

I'm not white. People have said awful racist and sexist things to me - to my face not even just on the internet - all my life, and yes, from 'naice, educated' people as well. It's grim, but if I was to 'feel sick' and 'feel like crying' every time it happened, well I'd be at it all day! Time to toughen up OP!

I feel like the OP is about to ask for the manager of Twitter...

Nah, I don't buy all this crap about "not tearing down" other women. Women are not immune from criticism just because they are women. Priti Patel is a twat and deserves criticism. If you "feel sick" about someone calling another person a Karen then you need to toughen up a bit.

Until you actually understand what a Karen is, you should refrain from complaining about it.

As I have already said, being assertive and standing up for yourself is not being a Karen. A Karen is entitled and throws tantrums when she doesn’t get her own way; do you do that? Do you scream and shout and insult people? Do you make unreasonable demands? If the answer is no, then no, you are not a Karen.

What do you mean ‘identify as a Karen’?
Do you mean actually called ‘Karen’ the Danish form of Catherine (probably back in the 1960s/70s when it was a popular name, so are probably now middle aged) or the ethnic group from Myanmar?

Yep, I think it’s a way of silencing women, middle age women specifically who have ceased to be sexually attractive enough to be useful for men.

I’ve worked in the service industry and men by far outnumber women in tantrum throwing behaviour but let’s just ignore that. Shut those meddlesome women up!

I think the problem with using Karen as an insult is that it might work in a US context, but in the UK, Karen tends to be a working class name, so effectively you have middle class people sneering at working class women, which isn't a good look.

Go on the feminist board, much more nuanced debate about it there, over multiple threads.

@heartsonacake
Until you actually understand what a Karen is, you should refrain from complaining about it.
People don't seem to agree at all about what a Karen is. The one I reference in my OP is about white entitled women, or to spell it out differently: women standing up for themselves.

A Karen is entitled and throws tantrums when she doesn’t get her own way; do you do that? Do you scream and shout and insult people? Do you make unreasonable demands? If the answer is no, then no, you are not a Karen. Well, this is it. I don't think I do. A male work colleague may see that another way when he sees an 'entitled' woman snapping at his heels. I haven't personally cried at work but seen others that have faced some difficult stuff - would I describe these as 'tantrums'? No, but they could sure be retold this way.

Wrt the racism, why is Priti being called a Karen? I don't get it.

Bloody hell...

@heartsonacake

You sound as though you're a leading authority on the term "Karen" and how it's used. Did you invent it? Because the way you're instructing the OP as to how it should be used and what she should think about it makes it sound like you did.

@Waxonwaxoff0
Nah, I don't buy all this crap about "not tearing down" other women. Women are not immune from criticism just because they are women. Priti Patel is a twat and deserves criticism. If you "feel sick" about someone calling another person a Karen then you need to toughen up a bit. You're probably right about toughing up, lol. And fine, criticise Priti if that's what you want to do. But by calling her a Karen? Huh? Does her politics not give enough grit for criticism without grasping for meme language?

In the case of politics, you don't have to look far to find gammon. I don't know about Priti enough to comment whether she fits the Karen stereotype.

Have you never worked in retail or customer services? Most people working in those sectors have stories about their encounters with Karens.

Priti Patel should be judged in the same way as her male counterparts. She's obviously tough to have reached her position so people laughing when she can't read out a 6 digit number is not something she probably cares about

I left a fb group specifically because they kept on about Gammons. I find (just of today in fact) these names hurtful (and no, I'm not male, overweight, nor a Brexit supporter). Memes like these compress people in all their lovely, contradictory (sometimes annoying, small mindedness) ways into a one word putdown. We all have a gammon, a sharon, a karen, a kevin in our lives. We love them despite our differences.

Btw, I do currently work in a customer services job - there are difficult customers. They can be old, young, male or female, polite or rude. Upper-class, working class and every class in between.

I agree with you OP. They're just a way to shut down discussion. Someone says something you don't like it's far easier to dismiss them as a Karen/Gammon. The benefits are twofold. Firstly don't have to use your brain and actually engage and prove your point because you've reduced them to that meme and they're no longer a person with views that have value whether you agree with or not. Secondly you've signalled to everyone else looking on that they too can just dismiss this person and no discussion is required. I'd be embarrassed to use it or defend the use of it.

People who use it in real life are pretty lame. My teens tell me it is only used by old people now but sadly, other female names will be used - ‘Becky’ and ‘Jessica’ are the new ‘Karen’ and ‘Susan’ by all accounts. I haven’t heard one convincing argument as to why male names haven’t gained the same traction or have the same unpleasant connotations. And the no, men can’t be ‘Karens’ too because it is a gendered name and the meme always features a middle aged woman. Its roots go back to misogynistic Reddit threads in 2000s.

Get over yourself OP.There are far more issues in the word than a silly internet fad.There are millions starving in Yemen transgender people having restricted health care in the USA and thousands of people of colour facing injustice

Have you never worked in retail or customer services? Most people working in those sectors have stories about their encounters with Karens.

I have, and tbh men were just as likely to be angry and unreasonable as women. It’s very weird there isn’t a ‘Karen’ equivalent name for men, I wonder what the reason could possibly be?

There are millions starving in Yemen transgender people having restricted health care in the USA and thousands of people of colour facing injustice

Indeed. Why don't don't you go and start or find a thread on these matters to post on instead of instructing others what they should or shouldn't be posting about on MN.

@hercatsanddogs

Get over yourself OP.There are far more issues in the word than a silly internet fad.There are millions starving in Yemen transgender people having restricted health care in the USA and thousands of people of colour facing injustice

It is possible to be concerned about all of those things as well as question the insidious misogynistic nature of a widespread meme.

I agree with you 100%, OP. This thread shows how ingrained these attitudes to women who dare complain are! Head over to the Feminism section, where you may get a more in depth discussion on the issue.

Thank you - I've checked out the threads posted earlier. I don't think my voice adds much to what they've already discussed. I'm still saddened. I don't live in a world of tropes and putdowns - thankfully, I live and work with people who do their own thing and happy to let others get on with theirs. Yet, the online world and the industry I'm targeting does. The culture wars run deep