Shorts under skirts for girls - a new thing?

[Biggrizzlybear]

A discussion on a school parents chat has brought up something I'd not thought about. Apparently a number of parents of September reception starters (girls) are looking for shorts to go under their daughter's school dresses "to make sure they're decent." I don't remember this happening when I was at school. Is that not what pants are for? I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, I don't want my daughter to look indecent in comparison to everybody else. But I don't want to teach her that how she looks and dresses is indecent when she's fully dressed. If her dress is long enough, surely she'll be decent. I doubt she'll spend more than a minute or two a day with her dress over her head!

Do little girls wear these nowadays? Am I being silly or neglectful in some way?

Sitting crosslegged on the carpet with modern thin gappy knickers on can reveal parts of the vulva.

Are you a teacher? How many parts have you seen?

[quote FreakStar]These look great!
www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-partners-girls'-seam-free-shorties-pack-of-3-multi/p4229088?size=13-14-years&sku=237960253&s_ppc=2dx92700051922680012&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9r_b-amY6gIVyIBQBh18ZA5NEAQYASABEgJUBfD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds[/quote]
Look great but they're polyester:(

To me, the problem isn’t the risk of knicker flashing, but that kids are wearing garments not suitable for school.

If a school insisted on shorts under dresses, i’d be ditching the dresses and buying shorts.

I don’t get the insistence on dresses, then having to find a solution to the “problem” of dresses not being acceptable.

Trousers or shorts instead.

@sleepyhead

Mind you, I'm old enough to have had to do gym in your knickers and vest when in infants if you forgot your kit!

And wear navy gym knickers as a teenager playing hockey (now that was grim).

We didn’t even have a kit in infants. We just did pe in our knickers and vest.... can’t remember about juniors. I do remember getting a pe kit for secondary aged 11. With the grim knickers of course. And obligatory showers.

I feel very lucky to have gone to a primary school that didn’t even enforce the wearing of school uniform. I wore jeans to school most of my later primary years.

Oh an a lot of the "these look great" examples are still too short and still underwear and some school staff would still expect shorts to be worn.

Not when I was at school but certainly when my DD was in primary during summer months. She's nearly 22 now. I just bought cotton/Lycra cycling shorts so she retained some modesty when she was cartwheeling etc. Lots of my DS's (9) classmates wear them now.

@bluebluezoo this is the first time she’s worn a dress for school, the weather was nice so she decide to put one on but she rarely wears them. No school uniform required at the moment so I think I’ll just stick to shorts and t shirts from now on

To me, the problem isn’t the risk of knicker flashing, but that kids are wearing garments not suitable for school.

Agree. If dresses without shorts aren’t acceptable for school then dresses shouldn’t be part of the uniform. Just omit the dress and have shorts.

I used to wear cycling shorts under my summer dress at primary school in the 90s to do handstands. Even at that age, I would rather not be flashing my knickers at my classmates.

I dislike the term modesty shorts though.

Not new. I wore cycling shorts under uniform summer dresses as a girl in the 90s. I asked for them after other children laughed at me for showing my knickers during active play in the playground. To an adult, a little girl's knickers aren't wrong or indecent, but to many other children her age, seeing them is funny/rude. I'm glad that my parents bought me shorts when I asked for them - if they hadn't, I'd have stopped doing handstands and the like.

I wore cycling shorts under my school dress every day at primary school in the summer (I'm now 33) because I used to spend the entire lunch break doing handstands

Aye the navy gym knickers..memories..fk they were awful...warm..but awful

Why the hell are Next calling them "modesty shorts"

H&M calls them boxer briefs and we have been using them for my 5yo for a while as normal knickers are considered uncomfortable by her

some school staff would still expect shorts to be worn

I’d be having very interesting discussions with those staff as to why they expect shirts to be worn - I’d want to understand exactly what their concerns are and the risk they’re trying to mitigate by suggesting that a flash of a child’s knicker is in some way risky or wrong.

our local school has skorts i think they are called for the girls a skirt with attached shorts for them i think its a good idea

The issue is the concept of the flash of knickers of prepubescent girls not being considered decent. I reject this. They are little girls. If you are looking at their pants and thinking they need to be more modest, then the problem is with you.

I'm sure by KS2 they'll be conditioned enough to be asking for them anyway.

Can you still get "PE Knickers"? We used to wear them under our games skirt at secondary school and even did athletics and gymnastics in just the knickers (I'm sure that's illegal these days!). They were dark coloured big granny pants, definitely nothing immodest about them! We used to wear our normal underneath but with a skirt i'm sure they'd be fine on their own.

@Jellycatspyjamas I didn't bother with the actual staff. I just asked the head if it's part of uniform policy and if it isn't,why is DD being told that she has to wear them. She agreed with me, DD didn't mention any other incidents. This summer (2 years on) she asked to wear them herself which I'm ok with.

I'm quite vocal at my own school as well when staff make comments, particularly for the younger girls. I'm not very popular.

At 4 years old I doubt many would be concerned at all about showing their knickers or wearing shorts under their skirts. Parents might though... my daughters are 6 and 8 and don’t wear anything over their knickers when wearing skirts. I
Can understand older girls wanting to. Seems very silly to me that adults project this stuff onto young children, let them enjoy being care free!

This is new since I was at primary school in mid to late 1990s. Never knew anyone to wear shorts under a dress. I’ve only come across this in documentaries about conservative Christians in the US who often make their preteen daughters wear leggings under knee length skirts “for decency”. So my natural reaction is to be appalled because it’s a bit like victim blaming for women who’ve been raped for wearing short skirts - if you start telling 4 year old girls that they should be ashamed about their bodies and always thinking about how they come across to others and whether they’re “decent” or not, what message does that give?

On the other hand, you could argue that telling little girls to “sit like a lady” and not wriggle or do handstands is also terrible, so I can see the idea. I have to say though when I’ve been around little girls and they briefly sit in a way that shows their knickers I’ve never once seen any genitals, so I personally would just ensure my daughter had decently fitting decently sized knickers and not dignify the other mums with a response, as otherwise you’ll be pressured into conforming. To me this has a strong air of the Victorian, covering up piano legs etc, so I would avoid.

I worked as a supply teacher in KS1 for many years and the only time I have come across this was in one school who made it a rule during Summer. I might add that despite seeing thousands of little girls sitting cross legged I have never seen any vulvas, possibly someone sitting with their hand in their knickers.

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock I worked as a TA and sometimes you did see more than you bargained for. I hate that they are called modesty shorts. Why not make undergarments that women and girls feel comfortable in FFS!
I've been cycling and have pinched a pair of my sons black boxer trunks so I can wear my short dresses cycling.

I'll have a look at some of the options, and see what I think. Ideally, I'd give her the choice. But she's only 4 and has no concept of needing to cover up her underwear, and why anybody would.

I think my main issue is with the words modesty and decency being used in this situation. And also girls underwear being flimsier than boys!