Shorts under skirts for girls - a new thing?

[Biggrizzlybear]

A discussion on a school parents chat has brought up something I'd not thought about. Apparently a number of parents of September reception starters (girls) are looking for shorts to go under their daughter's school dresses "to make sure they're decent." I don't remember this happening when I was at school. Is that not what pants are for? I don't know what to think about it. On the one hand, I don't want my daughter to look indecent in comparison to everybody else. But I don't want to teach her that how she looks and dresses is indecent when she's fully dressed. If her dress is long enough, surely she'll be decent. I doubt she'll spend more than a minute or two a day with her dress over her head!

Do little girls wear these nowadays? Am I being silly or neglectful in some way?

Underwear is private. The NSPCC teach that

No they don’t. They teach privates are private, and underwear covers your privates.

“Safety shorts” “modesty shorts” really? We’re ok with these messages for our girls - they need at least two layers of fabric between their bum and the public, for safety and modesty?

@PrincessConsueIaBananaHammock

neither should girls (and in normal pants, they routinely do)

How many girl vulvas have you seen in your life due to knicker malfunction?

I think you should stop asking.

My LG is 4 she doesn't wear shorts under her skirt as far as i no none of the girls in her class do.my niece in high-school does she's 13 an feels more comfortable with shorts under skirt an she says all the girls in high-school do it.

@RightOnTheEdge - it’s not for a TA to be telling girls what underwear they have to wear before doing a handstand. Girls don’t need to wear shorts under their clothes.

On Mumsnet you’ll find it’s a crime against females to suggest these shorts.

In real life you’ll see plenty of girls wearing them and our school insisted on PE shorts under dresses if girls were showing their knickers (eg cartwheeling) and hadn’t got jersey shorts type things on under their dresses.

I went into nursery to pick up my ds (a decade ago) and a 4yo girl had a total dress and knicker malfunction (sitting on carpet scratching herself). I though it was rather unhygienic and not appropriate for a child to be able to so easily get into a position where they exposed their bits like that to random parents picking up. I sent my dd in leggings to nursery and then jersey shorts under dress for primary. She was perfectly happy.

@StripeyBananas

Those of you who say that wearing knickers and shorts in this weather makes you feel ill, what are you wearing?

I'd imagine those people mean knickers and tight shorts and something else!

I used to wear shorts under my school skirt 30 year ago.

But... boys have 'at least two layers of fabric between their bum and the public, for safety and modesty', don't they?

I’m nearly 40 and I remember wearing cycling shorts under my school skirt. So, as others have said it isn’t new.

I’m an eyfs teacher now and I haven’t seen one of my little ones in shorts. A few in playsuits (which are more unsuitable as it is rare a young child can manage to go to the toilet independently without them dragging on the toilet floor). not envy

In KS1 and KS2 short wearing is quite common.

We do get the odd flash of vulva on the carpet from poorly fitting underwear, but we get many more glimpses of genitalia when children are changing for PE, or dashing out of the toilet pants around their ankles, or when they are being helped with personal care. It is just part and parcel of working with little children and I can’t think of one single colleague in all my years of teaching that has a) been offended or b) shamed a child. We treat any child as we would our own children. The other children are oblivious too at this age.

I used to always teach my classes how to sit on the carpet, that was boys and girls! We practiced which they enjoyed. The rest of the year all I had to say was 'sit properly' and they knew what I meant. Children are taught very young the pant area is private, so this ties in.

@Jellycatspyjamas

“Safety shorts” “modesty shorts” really? We’re ok with these messages for our girls - they need at least two layers of fabric between their bum and the public, for safety and modesty?

Of course not.

However I think this has highlighted that designers/manufacturers of girls clothing/underwear should create more practical and comfortable items without giving them ridiculous labels, such as "modesty" and "safety".

I mean "modesty shorts" are practically the same as a pair of trunk boxers (worn in place of knickers). So why not just call them what they are, boxers?

Looking at the 'girls' boxers and shorts, for some unknown reason they are still higher cut in the leg than a pair of ordinary 'boys' boxer shorts.

Ime the majority of boys choose to wear boxers over briefs, presumably for comfort. Yet they aren't labelled as "modest trunks". So why should the same option for the girls be labelled as such?

"Modesty" should not factor, it should be about comfort and choice.

I think you should stop asking.

Why? People are trying to make it seem like something that happens very frequently and regularly. I've never seen anything and I work in a school and used to help in other schools before that.

Once a year? Not an issue?
Once a term? Not an issue.
Once a month? Possibly an issue.
Once a week? Definitely an issue.

I find it ridiculous that little girls have to obey made up rules , for made up reasons or they're not allowed to okay the way they want to.

Barbados primary school we wore "school knickers" like shorts of blue gingham under our dress. And that was nearly 40 years ago.

Indeed, my DD prefers shorts style underwear, but she doesn’t need another pair of shorts on top. My DS does have two layers of fabric, unless he’s wearing a kilt in which case I’d not expect him to wear shorts on top of pants under his kilt.

Parker231 I thought how much Mumsnet would disapprove when she said it!
These threads come up all the time and are all exactly the same.

I never said it to any girls and I left that job anyway.

I did it as a child and I do it now. Nothing worse than feeling exposed from a rogue breeze. Cycle shorts are in fashion now too (thanks, Diana renaissance).
How would we all be feeling if boys underpants were exposed as frequently?

@ekidmxcl

On Mumsnet you’ll find it’s a crime against females to suggest these shorts.

In real life you’ll see plenty of girls wearing them and our school insisted on PE shorts under dresses if girls were showing their knickers (eg cartwheeling) and hadn’t got jersey shorts type things on under their dresses.

I went into nursery to pick up my ds (a decade ago) and a 4yo girl had a total dress and knicker malfunction (sitting on carpet scratching herself). I though it was rather unhygienic and not appropriate for a child to be able to so easily get into a position where they exposed their bits like that to random parents picking up. I sent my dd in leggings to nursery and then jersey shorts under dress for primary. She was perfectly happy.

Random parents picking up won't see the children sitting on the carpet, they don't get past the school office.

@sleepyhead

Mind you, I'm old enough to have had to do gym in your knickers and vest when in infants if you forgot your kit!

And wear navy gym knickers as a teenager playing hockey (now that was grim).

I'm old enough to remember when PE kit was just vest and knickers!

It's definitely a thing here in Australia too - lots of people look for the "skater skirts" with the inbuilt shorts, and I'm talking primary, not secondary. Secondary uniforms here are shorter than in the UK but many places now allow the girls to wear long trousers - not sure I've seen any in school shorts though, in summer they all seem to wear skirts or the summer dresses (if included in uniform), which seems a little unreasonable. I wouldn't have been happy with the shortness of either of those options when I was a teen (so it's a good job I went to school in the UK, where knee length or just above was the standard)

I went into nursery to pick up my ds (a decade ago) and a 4yo girl had a total dress and knicker malfunction (sitting on carpet scratching herself). I though it was rather unhygienic and not appropriate for a child to be able to so easily get into a position where they exposed their bits like that to random parents picking up.

A four year old , seriously? 🙄 Most parents wouldn’t be bothered, just makes you sound weird for paying attention!

I bought Dd two pairs of the dreaded modesty shorts last year to try. She declared them horrid and wouldn’t put them on (we are in cyprus, it’s stupid hot in the summer). She also said that boys shouldn’t be looking at her knickers so I found it hard to argue any different (she’s year 3).
So, just the usual pants here!

Why do little girls need to wear skirts or dresses is a better question. We put little girls in dresses and flimsy shoes and wonder why they don't do more sport. All children should be in shorts and sensible shoes at school. It's a shame they aren't. Little girls need to stop being treated as ornamental.

@Chartsandgraphs so true!

My daughter isn’t an ornament, she does like skirts and dresses - surely feminism is about choice, choice to wear what you chose so if she wants to wear a sun dress, why shouldn’t she. If she’s going to do sports etc of course she’ll wear the appropriate uniform but going about her day she gets to chose. Her underwear covers everything it needs to if she’s climbing or cartwheeling.